Just In Case You STILL Support The Roman Catholic Church (*updated 6/19/08*)…

***UPDATED 6/19/08***

Our brother Job at Jesus Christology posted an excellent article clarifying (i.e correcting) a common RCC claim that Christ Himself established Peter as the Vicar of His Church. Also, our brother Independent Conservative posted excellent teaching videos from an ex-Catholic exploring (and refuting) Mary worship.

<—————————————->

***ORIGINAL ARTICLE***

I’ve made no apologies about my personal views on the Roman Catholic Church, and how they preach a different Gospel (Galatians 1:6-7). Today’s post is simply an illustration – just in case some of you think I’ve lost my mind in calling out the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church:

Charting a path to John Paul II’s sainthood

Team in Rome examines ’cause’ of the hugely popular former pope

By Michelle Boorstein
updated 3:58 a.m. ET, Mon., June. 2, 2008

ROME – Evidence overflows from hundreds of boxes stacked to the ceiling in room after room at the Catholic Diocese of Rome — photographs, drawings, letters and other items that church officials are scouring for the answer to a question: Is Pope John Paul II a saint?

The task here at the Office of the Postulator of the Cause for Beatification and Canonization is to judge souls, a complex job even when the soul in question doesn’t belong to a spiritual superhero such as John Paul, who died in 2005 as one of the most popular pontiffs in history. (click here to read the entire article)

Did you catch that? There are people sitting in an office in Rome “judging souls”! The process of canonization of saints is controversial to non-Catholics because it (essentially) deifies a person. How can anyone who claims the Name of the Lord be comfortable praying to a “saint” that was voted into that position by men?

And don’t use the argument “well, the bible was also written by men yet we believe it as the breathed Word of God, right?”. Yup – every TRUE Christian should accept the bible as the INFALLIBLE WORD OF GOD, given to men by inspiration to tell of His plan for us through His Son.

The bible also speaks clearly in cautioning us to worship anything or anyone except God through Jesus Christ. If we are going to use the bible to defend or argue against the RCC (which we should), then let’s look at the totality of it’s evidence.

Once again, here are a few of the key tenets of the RCC – and how scripture refutes them:

 I’ll end this with “evidence” from the article that could aid in the “beatification” of the late John Paul II:

The report makes a case for John Paul to be beatified. This requires proof of one miracle (usually of the medical kind) after the candidate’s death. Church officials say privately that Oder has attributed the 2005 healing of a French nun who had Parkinson’s disease to prayers she addressed to John Paul’s soul.

Just shameful…

Oh, and if you’re ready to denounce me for siding with scripture, then, well…pray to one of your dead saints on my behalf.

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9 Responses to “Just In Case You STILL Support The Roman Catholic Church (*updated 6/19/08*)…”


  1. 1 lostnowfound June 2, 2008 at 9:35 pm

    I used to be a Catholic, I was raised in it and by the grace of God, my mother was a lapsed enough catholic where I wasn’t really forced to go through the sacraments like my cousin. When I got saved by the grace of God, I flirted with going back into the church because that was the only church I knew and a good deal of the other churches around me were full of the Purpose-Driven Mess (I knew back then to stay away from that). The Lord led me to information on different websites that educated me about the difference between true faith, the true church and the Catholic dogma and beliefs. It took a while because even though I didn’t really attend mass, I had enough of the dogma in me which made it hard to let go.

    Pray for those in the Catholic church. The catechisms really give you the idea that you can truly be saved if you work at it enough and then you add the indulgences like the scapulas (brown scapula which when worn at all times, if you die, you’d go straight to heaven because the “virgin mary” said so). They have to be freed, shown that you can truly be saved by God through grace by faith. The Lord saved me, I know He can save other Catholics.

  2. 2 Timothy June 3, 2008 at 12:29 am

    Greetings! Saw your post in Google Blogsearch and came to read.

    >”Did you catch that? There are people sitting in an office in Rome “judging souls”!”

    No, there are not people sitting in an office in Rome judging souls. There were, however, people sitting in an office in Rome examining facts to determine if there is evidence that a soul has entered heaven. One shouldn’t take a reporter’s poor choice of words as the de facto description of the sainthood process.

    [ST NOTE] – Poor choice of words aside, the RCC does convene a group of people to determine if miracles can be ascribed to a person (other than Christ), deeming that person saint worthy. It’s still unscriptural.

    >”The bible also speaks clearly in cautioning us to worship anything or anyone except God through Jesus Christ.”

    No one is worshipping Pope John Paul. Keep in mind the word “pray” is Old English for “ask” and does not mean “worship”.

    [ST NOTE] Why should anyone worship/pray/ask JPII or any other “saint” anything? What can he or any other “saint” do that Jesus didn’t do at the cross?

    >”The Pope is the “holy father” – God’s representative here on earth (NO – read Matthew 23:9″

    YES, the Pope may be called “father”. Read Acts 7:2, Romans 9:10

    Acts 7:2 Stephen calls Abraham “father”
    Romans 9:10 Paul calls Isaac “father”
    If Matthew 23:9 is an absolute prohibition, then why do these two NT verses contradict Matthew 23:9? Isn’t the Bible inerrant and infallible — no contradictions?

    Yes – Peter and his successors (Popes) are God’s representatives here on earth – Read Matthew 16:18-20 and Isaiah 22:22

    Isaiah 22 descibes the Davidic office of chamberlain with Eliakim as David’s vicar.
    Matthew 16:18-20 Jesus re-establishes the Davidic office of chamberlain with Peter as Jesus’ vicar.

    [ST NOTE] The bible IS inerrant and infallible. Stephen and Paul were referencing the patriarchs of the faith, not submitting to them as a “father”. When you read the entire 23rd chapter of Matthew, you’ll see that Jesus was clearly speaking out against the religous leaders of the day because they claimed to represent the Kingdom of God (just as the RCC does).

    There are countless arguments about “petro vs. petra” in relation to Peter’s acknowledgement of Christ’s Messianic title, but Jesus didn’t say anything about a “pope” or “papacy”. Eliakim is to be compared to a pope – who rules from Italy? God speaks very clearly in His Word – why wouldn’t He want the world to clearly understand His Apostolic order, especially if we are to honor it?

    >”Dead saints intercede to God on behalf of the living (NO – read Isaiah 8:19-20)”

    YES – read Revelation 5:8, Mark 12:27
    Revelation 5:8 depicts our elders in heaven interceding by offering the prayers of we saints to God.
    Mark 12:27 Jesus Himself says God is not the God of the dead but of the living – thus, per Jesus there are no dead saints

    [ST NOTE] Jesus’ acknowledgement that you don’t die (in the natural) if you believe in Him in no way condones “asking” a “saint” to intercede to the Father on our behalf – isn’t that what He came to do (Romans 8:34)? Does this condone praying to the “patron saint of safety” or the “patron saint of test taking”?

    >”Sins can be “forgiven” by man (NO – Ephesians 2:8-9; James 2:14-18)”

    YES – Read John 20:19-23 and James 5:16
    Jesus gave at least 12 men the authority to forgive sins!

    [ST NOTE] John 20:19-23 does not give men authority to forgive sins – it gives the Apostles the power to declare that forgiveness is available through Jesus Christ. If the Apostles were given power to forgive sin, then how did they pass that power down to every priest alive today? And James 5:16 doesn’t afford any power to forgive sin, it speaks of the need to acknowledge sin and repent.

    >”Mary is as holy and sinless as Christ, therefore she can intercede on our behalf to God (NO – Luke 11:27-28)”

    Yes – read Revelation 12:1-5, Revelation 21:27, 1 Thessalonians 5:23

    Revelation 12:1-5 says Mary is in heaven. Did any other woman give birth to a male child who ruled the world with an iron rod (Isaiah 11:1-4)?

    Revelation 21:27 says nothing unholy may enter heaven. Mary is in heaven so she is holy.

    1 Thessalonians 5:23 says God makes us holy in every way. Would not “holy in every way” not also include being sinless as Christ?

    Also, review the role of the mother of a Jewish king and her role as intercessor between the people and the king – Compare 1Kings 1:16 and 2:19 According to Revelation 12:1-5, Mary wears a crown like a queen and her son Jesus is a king, so would not Mary be a queen mother as in 1Kings 2:19?

    [ST NOTE] Mary is the mother of Christ, but Christ is the ONLY person who is sinless, period (Romans 3:23). Mary is in heaven, yes, but she is not to be worshiped or prayed to. And we are only holy because of our relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Even the Apostles didn’t venerate Mary, so why should we? You can compare Mary to the “mother of a Jewish king” all you want, but we all know the RCC’s stance on Mariology.

    There is no co-redemptrix. Period.

    >”if you’re ready to denounce me for siding with scripture,”

    Denounce for siding with scripture, no. Denounce for misapplying and misinterpreting scripture, yes. My brother in Christ, you are in error. Some might even refer to you as a “false teacher”.

    In your denouncements of the Catholic Church, keep in mind the words of G.K. Chesterton:

    “I could not understand why these romancers never took the trouble to find out a few elementary facts about the thing they denounced. The facts might easily have helped the denunciation, where the fictions discredited it. There were any number of real Catholic doctrines I should then have thought disgraceful to the Church… But the enemies of the Church never found these real rocks of offence. They never looked for them. They never looked for anything… Boundless freedom reigned; it was not treated as if it were a question of fact at all… It puzzled me very much, even at that early stage, to imagine why people bringing controversial charges against a powerful and prominent institution should thus neglect to test their own case, and should draw in this random way on their own imagination… I never dreamed that the Roman religion was true; but I knew that its accusers, for some reason or other, were curiously inaccurate.”

    God bless…

    +Timothy

    [ST NOTE] Thanks for taking the time to stop by and refute my opinion Tim, but this is why I won’t entertain comments in support of the cult of Mary. Am I a false teacher? NO Do I read my bible? Yes – and I believe that no pulpit pimp, priest, pope, or dead saint can stand between me and Jesus Christ.

    We’ll end this conversation here – I’ll maintain my position and you can maintain yours.

  3. 3 Speaking Truth June 3, 2008 at 11:15 am

    OK folks – the post from Tim above is the reason that I adhere to 2 John 1:10-11 when dealing with folks who advance the cause of a different gospel.

    No disrespect to Tim, but I will NEVER acknowledge the “validity” of the RCC or their tenets and I will ALWAYS side with God’s Word.

    With that, I’ll entertain no more comments in support of the RCC.

  4. 4 Independent Conservative June 3, 2008 at 11:45 am

    ST,

    I was looking forward to you wasting lots of time on a mission to no where. But I see you’re a quick study 😆 .

    They sit around with all those man made criteria other than salvation by grace through faith. Which only can come by God, because it’s God’s grace that makes it all possible. For them it’s ONLY salvation by the Roman Catholic Church, which is a false salvation of works and man pleasing.

    They let it be known they are a cult if one would study their material deeply enough.
    Roman Catholicism Versus The Bible. As Always, Bible Wins! (*Updated*)

    I used to think the people claiming RCC is a cult were nuts, till I learned what the RCC was trying to promote!

    It’s one thing to encounter an RCC person and try to help them and much another for them to come to your spot ready to defend their cult, after seeing it denounced in TRUTH. It’s not going to be a session where they intend to accept the truth. Only continue rejecting truth and promoting error.

  5. 5 kingskid June 3, 2008 at 12:41 pm

    Hello Speaking Truth,

    Allow me to interject: Timothy you said–

    …No one is worshipping Pope John Paul. Keep in mind the word “pray” is Old English for “ask” and does not mean “worship”. (Really? Tell me this when I bow down and kiss your ring, exactly what am I doing?)

    …Revelation 12:1-5 says Mary is in heaven. <b.(NO, it did not, read it again. {her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. — which equals to three and one half years of tribulation!

    BTW the woman spoken of in these verses is the :church/bride of Christ)

    …Did any other woman give birth to a male child who ruled the world with an iron rod (Isaiah 11:1-4)? (No, however, your comprehension is dysfunctional—these verses do not give mention of Mary—“a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:”)

    …Revelation 21:27 says nothing unholy may enter heaven. Mary is in heaven so she is holy. (No, Mary and no other human being is in heaven. Pray tell me where in your Bible does it say that she is?)

    …Denounce for siding with scripture, no. Denounce for misapplying and misinterpreting scripture, yes. My brother in Christ, you are in error. Some might even refer to you as a “false teacher”.

    (You must have been referring to the “Man in the mirror” when you penned this statement.)

    In closing I ask that you meditate on James 1:5
    If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

    Peace

  6. 6 speakingtruth June 3, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    Kingskid,

    Thanks for adding your “2 cents”, but we’re really going to keep going in circles regarding this issue (or non-issue).

    As IC said:

    It’s one thing to encounter an RCC person and try to help them and much another for them to come to your spot ready to defend their cult, after seeing it denounced in TRUTH. It’s not going to be a session where they intend to accept the truth. Only continue rejecting truth and promoting error.

    Let’s just let it be…

    Thanks for stopping by.

  7. 7 Independent Conservative June 3, 2008 at 1:25 pm

    While the RC member is way off. I need to interject myself.

    Because dead saints are resting in Christ in Heaven.

    Philippians 1:23-24 (New American Standard Bible)

    23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;

    24 yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.

    When Christ returns the saints receive new bodies, but all who sleep are now with the Lord, 2 Corinthians 5:6-9.

  8. 8 speakingtruth June 3, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    Point well taken IC. Bible readers should know that, but it doesn’t hurt to restate it – especially in light of the overall argument. I meant to make the point in my original rebuttal as well.

    The fact remains visible to ANYONE who claims the Name of the Lord – Jesus is our only intercession to the Father.

  9. 9 lavrai June 7, 2008 at 8:39 pm

    I remember when John Paul died…and how the world reacted. People were bawling in the streets over this dead man. People were speaking of him as if he were Messiah Christ Jesus. People were speaking as if this mortal man had died for them on a cross and came back from the dead (I am literally watching for the ‘back from the dead’ story in the future on this man… I don’t put it pass Satan). People were behaving and speaking as if GOD ALMIGHTY had removed HIMSELF from us… I saw live video and constant news coverage from the ‘inside’ on this man’s death…and suddenly spectacular life. And it wasn’t only the ‘regular’ people who behaved so disgracefully, but the news anchors and reporters themselves totally lost their professional face and said things that were just… inappropriate? Blasphemous?

    I thank GOD ALMIGHTY for saving me and keeping me and for blessing me with the companionship and guidance of HIS Holy Spirit — because if mine eyes and ears and heart had not been opened, I would be running around blind and in the dark like these folks who put their faith and hope in mere mortals and dead people. But for the grace of GOD, right? Dead people. We human beings pray to dead people.

    GOD is not dead. Christ Jesus is not dead. But do these people realize that?


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