The “Love has nothing to do with it Offering”…

vh1s-i-love-money-logo

Since I’ve already covered two of the most scurrilous scams that pulpit pimps use to take your money (the “tithe” and “first fruit”), it’s only fitting to end this series with the offering that completes the ponzi scheme “trifecta” – the ever vaulted “love offering”. You can thank reader John 8:32 for inspiring me by providing this juicy little morsel in the comment thread regarding the Pimp of Hampton’s ability to accumulate cash without paying his bills (my emphasis in bold):

…You know, this is a real sad “state of affairs”. Dre’ and his wife are fleecing the sheep for more than $750,000.00 a year, living in a home worth more than 1.4 million, has a Bentley, two Cadillacs, and a Mercedes Benz and can’t or won’t pay a $17,700.00 property tax bill. I wonder if he paid the taxes on the previous mansion he still owns. Oh and I also heard that the new leader of his elite security team, a man trying to be made in Dre’s image, has required his ministry members to not only tithe, but they are also required to give a consistant “love offering”.

Although the logo above is from VH1′s trash reality show “I Love Money” (a show about circus freaks from other trashy reality shows competing in challenges for cash), it might as well be on the doors of your church (as well as the giving envelopes handed out weekly) if your pastor solicits “love offerings”.

Let me be clear – just as I believe that Christians should give generously for the furtherance of the Gospel, I also believe that elders should be compensated with a fair salary (in proportion to their congregation) for their work in the ministry. In his defense of his Apostolic ministry in 1 Corinthians 9, Paul clearly states that he’s worth his wages:

1 Corinthians 9:7-11 (New American Standard Bible)

7Who at any time serves (A)as a soldier at his own expense? Who (B)plants a vineyard and does not eat the fruit of it? Or who tends a flock and does not use the milk of the flock?

 8I am not speaking these things (C)according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things?

 9For it is written in the Law of Moses, “(D)YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING ” God is not concerned about (E)oxen, is He?

 10Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, (F)for our sake it was written, because (G)the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to thresh in hope of sharing the crops.

 11(H)If we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we reap material things from you?

But before you start “dancing in the aisle” in support of your pimp, Paul also rejects the pursuit of material things in his spreading of the Gospel because he wanted the focus to remain on the Gospel – and not his right to “boast” in it:

1 Corinthians 9:14-18 (New American Standard Bible)

14So also (A)the Lord directed those who proclaim the (B)gospel to (C)get their living from the gospel.

 15But I have (D)used none of these things And I am not writing these things so that it will be done so in my case; for it would be better for me to die than have any man make (E)my boast an empty one.

 16For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for (F)I am under compulsion; for woe is me if I do not preach (G)the gospel.

 17For if I do this voluntarily, I have a (H)reward; but if against my will, I have a (I)stewardship entrusted to me.

 18What then is my (J)reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may offer the gospel (K)without charge, so as (L)not to make full use of my right in the gospel.

Paul’s point was a valid one – he was worthy of honest wages to support him while spreading the Gospel, but he was not worthy to sell the Gospel to the highest bidder, and therein lies the problem: pulpit pimps “sell” the Gospel and cajole you into giving them a “love offering” to gauge your “love” for them and their labor. In return, you are seen as a “faithful son or daughter”and shown favoritism (in violation of James 2:1-9) above those who sit next to you in the pews who don’t (or can’t) “honor the man/woman of God with their giving”.

It is sad, but fitting: pulpit pimps have bastardized the concepts of prosperity and abundant life to the point that they’ve convinced the sheep that God accepts bribes and doles out His love to them based on their giving. Accordingly (in pimp-sick minds), your gesture of love and support for their ministry can only be manifested in cash, and in turn, the pimp only loves you based on your “gifts” to him. Twisted logic indeed.

So, the pimp opens his bible to one of the few bible verses that he uses to guilt you into giving – Galatians 6:6-8 (“ready, read!”):

6(A)The one who is taught (B)the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him.

 7(C)Do not be deceived, (D)God is not mocked; for (E)whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.

 8(F)For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap (G)corruption, but (H)the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

Before you know it, the hireling is prancing and preening across the book board, almost crowing:

“If (huh) you wanna obey gawd (huh), then you’ll honor his word (huh). The biiiiiible says (huh), that if you don’t pay the mand of gawd (huh) then you’re mocking him (huh). You don’t wanna mock gawd (huh) do ya?(huh) I said, (singing now) YOOOOUUU don’t wanna mock gawd, do you? (huh). Then open up yo pocket books (huh) and share (huh) with the mand of gawd (huh) that feeds you the word (huh). Say YYYEEEAAHHH”

The problem is that (as usual) the pimp has poorly exegeted this text and used it out of context…again. Galatians 6 is an admonishment from the Apostle Paul about the importance of Christians bearing one another’s burdens. Just as we should be willing to care for the material needs of those around us who are in lack, we should also feel a burden to care for the material needs of the earnest elders who teach and preach the Word – without compromise or games. The call to ministry is a burden – a holy and humbling burden, but a burden nonetheless, and sometimes burdens can cause financial strain on those who answer the call. I have seen preachers who visit the sick (personally), feed the poor (personally), and minister to the needs of others – yet their own families wear time-worn clothes and they stretch a baked chicken for a few days.

Bob Deffinbaugh gave a thorough exegesis of sowing and reaping and Galatians 6:6-18:

In verse 6 Paul does not stress payment for services rendered so much as it does participation in the ministry of the Word of God. There are other passages which deal with the obligation of the church toward those who spend full time in a teaching ministry (e.g. 1 Cor. 9:1-14; 1 Tim. 5:17-18; 2 Tim. 2:3-7), but the emphasis never seems to be simply that of looking at a man’s ministry as a job, for which he is to be paid. There is more to it than just money. For example, in 1 Timothy 5:17 the expression “double honor” certainly calls for a generous provision of salary, but the “double honor” of financial provision conveys as well the esteem and appreciation which are elsewhere called for apart from monetary or material goods (e.g. 1 Thes. 5:12-13; 1 Cor. 16:18).

In Galatians 6:6, the verb form of the term “koinonia,” “fellowship” is translated “share.” While “sharing” in a financial or material way is encouraged in the New Testament, it does not normally include the idea of payment, but of mutual participation in ministry with and to other members of the body of Christ (cp. “contributing,” Rom. 12:13; “contribution,” Rom. 15:26; 2 Cor. 9:13; “sharing,” Heb. 13:16). Thus, the “sharing” of the Philippian church was not merely some kind of payment for Paul’s ministry to them, but a participation in Paul’s ministry to others (cp. Phil. 1:5; 4:15; cf. Matt. 10:40-42). Having “fellowship” materially with those who are in need is a demonstration of our unity and interdependence as members of Christ’s body, the church.

Deffinbaugh goes on to say that every hireling who calls himself (or herself) a teacher doesn’t deserve financial support (my emphasis in bold):

The responsibility here is that of those “who are taught” to those “who teach.” The inference is that we are obligated (in this context, at least, but see also 3 John 5-8) only to those who teach us. Just because a person is a self-proclaimed teacher is no basis for our obligation to him. It is those who have been taught who are obligated to the teacher. Frankly, there are a large number of “teachers” who should not be encouraged because of their shoddy methods and message, even if it is an orthodox one.

So herein lies the problem – the pimp breaks his own arm to pat himself on the back by declaring “you don’t know the gift you have before you”. He even solicits visiting pimps to heap adoration upon him – and to remind you that your pimp “could pastor anywhere in the world, but he has chosen to be used of God for your benefit!”. So the end result is that you are begged (weekly) to “support the vision and the visionary” by giving over and above your tithes and offering.

There’s just one big difference between your pimp and the Apostles who helped grow the early church (and earnest preachers who aren’t pimping the Gospel week after week) - YOUR PIMP LIVES IN A MANSION AND DRIVES A CAR THAT COST MORE THAN YOUR HOUSE! The Apostles literally moved from city to city relying on the care (food, clothings, other items) of the saints – your pimp moves from his driveway to his reserved parking space at the monument to his ego every week. The Apostles didn’t have a substantial salary, benefits package, or the coveted status of tax exempt clergy…YOUR PIMP ENJOYS ALL OF THESE THINGS, AND STILL DEMANDS A “LOVE OFFERING” AS WELL!

Further, despite the demonic prosperity gospel lie that “Jesus was rich…that’s why the soldiers cast lots at the foot of the cross because His clothes were expensive!” and “if Jesus wasn’t rich, then why did he have a treasurer?!?!” - Jesus Himself confirmed His homelessness (Luke 9:58). I could (and probably will) write a 4,000+ word essay (replete with scripture) debunking the “Jesus was rich” myth, but I’ll simply say this: Why would Jesus (THE essence of the Gospel message)not solicit “love offering” for spreading the Gospel – yet His (alleged) mouthpieces routinely do – IN ADDITION TO THEIR EXORBITANT SALARIES? Surely Jesus deserved a few scheckels while traveling here and there spreading His message, but He didn’t even give money to His disciples to go forth in His name.

Yet curiously, your pimp feels the need to guilt you into going over and above your weekly tax to him in order to “show your love”.

How can you honestly give a “love offering” for the care of your minister’s needs when your minister has no need for ANYTHING? Even worse, you honestly believe that he loves you more because you give him money? Sadly, this is a prototypical pimp-prostitute relationship: the prostitute thinks the pimp loves her because she’s a good earner, and the pimp makes her feel special for taking care of him.

It’s sick.

The bottom line is this: earnest elders deserve support to help care for the needs of them and their families (through a legitimate salary structure – and free will offering as the Lord leads). If his salary does not meet his needs, then he (like all of us) needs to learn to do more with less – or FIND A JOB THAT MEETS HIS SALARY DEMANDS. If the sheep decide to give the elder a “special offering”, then they should do so as the Lord wills – not under duress or in false allegiance to a thief.

When a pimp rely’s on your weekly love offerings to pay for gas for his new Bentley and his tailored clothing allowance, then he has left “needs” far behind and crossed over into lustfully profane “wants”.

At this point, you already know the drill: unless you enjoy being beat over the head for your last dime, you need to flee these degenerate cut-rate two-bit hustlers and their money-grubbing schemes. Otherwise, don’t be surprised when the pimp is unwilling to help you meet your needs in time of trouble.

He’ll be too busy spending your money at the Mall and the Bentley dealership…meeting his needs.

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38 Responses to “The “Love <strike><i>has nothing to do with it</i></strike> Offering”…”


  1. 1 Villiam11 March 3, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    Man that was funny and sad,

    Funny: the rendition of the pastor/preacher/wolf singing and riffing……
    Its extra funny because from time to time my friend and I joke about it and I’m telling you,what you typed was almost verbatim.

    Sad, because these portions of scripture are taken out of context and elevated above other scriptures.

    Truly this was a laugh out loud moment for me.

    My 2 cents

    • 2 young1lookin4thetruth March 3, 2009 at 7:37 pm

      and yeah that was hilarious ST…your rendition of a hooping and hollering sermon LOL

    • 3 N'Catina March 4, 2009 at 4:54 pm

      Villiam11, I was thinking precisely the same thing with IST’s “rendition” of a “singing sermon.” That display is the backbone and staple in the black church (regardless of denomination); totally void of understanding and sense. While I can fish some degree of information from people that make “whooping” part of their repretoire (I see mostly men do this), I simply cannot listen to that on a regular basis.

      Now, tying this into the point surrounding the “love offering,” now is the time for the adherents to snap out of this weekly/bi-wwekly trance for the money shakedown. The greedy heretics are going to be quick to meet their doom, in this life (I believe) and afterwards. If what was presented concerning Landers is any indication, we may likely see a high number of these “earthly kings” be put out on their royal duffs.

  2. 4 young1lookin4thetruth March 3, 2009 at 7:35 pm

    ST,

    I’m proud of you and I’m left speechless because everything you said needs no comment just agreement. I totally agree and it’s a shame they ask for more when they’re already getting money that’s not authorized by scripture. I can’t say any more because I receive more understanding every day about everything I’ve ever believed and the more I learn and understand the more I cling to the cross. Nothing in my hand I bring, simply to the cross I cling… I can’t buy love and favor from God nor should I want to buy it from a man who can’t save my soul from hell and God’s wrath.

    Keep on keeping on my big brother in Christ…

    • 5 speaking truth March 3, 2009 at 8:01 pm

      Glory to God Young1 and to Him alone. As I’ve told you and others before – I am completely unworthy of any praise as there is nothing good in me apart from the Blood of Christ. It is only through His Spirit that I can use His Word to expose His enemies. I am one of millions of truth-tellers around the globe, and I am only doing as He mandates for my little piece of the web.

      You said:

      I totally agree and it’s a shame they ask for more when they’re already getting money that’s not authorized by scripture.

      I just want to reiterate that I have no problem with an Elder being paid a fair wage in accordance with his congregation – or an Elder receiving offerings as the Lord leads. It’s the mafia “stick ‘em up” that makes my meals come up, and stirs righetous indignation in me.

      I am so glad that God brought you this way, and I pray that He continues to reveal Himself to you through His Word as you grow in grace!

      • 6 young1lookin4thetruth March 3, 2009 at 8:12 pm

        I understand that ST. And yes glory to God and to God alone. The money I was talking about that wasn’t authorized by scripture was the tithes or the first fruits. Sorry I didn’t make that clear. Yes I do agree that the laborer is worthy of his wages as long as he is rightly dividing scripture and isn’t fleecing me for any of it. They have to be able to take care of their families and the church building and I have no problem contributing to that at all.

        • 7 speaking truth March 3, 2009 at 8:21 pm

          I gotcha Young1. Just putting it out there to combat those who complain that me and my brothers in the blogosphere just “sling mud” to start our own churches – which is completely false.

          Like I said – I just thank God that He has awakened your thirst for His truth!

          • 8 young1lookin4thetruth March 3, 2009 at 8:32 pm

            Those that hunger and thirst for righteousness shall be filled…Thank you Lord for filling me daily! And you were right about really listening to the words of Amazing Grace (you said do that in a post a long time ago)…it means so much to me now.

  3. 9 Pastor Jim March 4, 2009 at 9:12 am

    ST,
    Reading your blog is like reading a former cult member’s deprogramming journal. Sad, but a secure hope in the Truth and Grace of Christ alone.

    Keep on pulling back the veil of secrecy and exposing the darkness to light.

    I would like for you to write sometime about the difference between wants and needs. You said above that “he has left “needs” far behind and crossed over into lustfully profane “wants”.’

    I think I see in your writings and reflections that club members and the false pastors are the same in this way: All of them want the lifestyle that the false teacher has – that is why they are so easily manipulated. Is that what I’m hearing you say?

    What has God done to free you from those illicit wants?
    What must your readers and the larger culture do to be set free from those wants?
    Is there an aspect of our culture – American, Black church, pentecostal or any other – that we need to attack in intercessory prayer?

    Graced

    • 10 speaking truth March 4, 2009 at 2:24 pm

      I would like for you to write sometime about the difference between wants and needs. You said above that “he has left “needs” far behind and crossed over into lustfully profane “wants”.’

      I could write a book on wants vs. needs, Pastor Jim, but we all know the difference, no matter how we pretend that really need that new car that we can’t afford – even though the 6 year gently used Honda Civic will do. But for the sake of those who may not know, let me break it down:

      - Food? A need. Gourmet food catered in or cooked by a personal chef? A want.

      - Car? A need – especially in Metro Atlanta. A $200K Bentley that you’ve upgraded from a $170K Bentley? A want.

      - Clothing? A need. Custom tailored suits, lizard-skinned shoes that cost over $2K a pair, and a tailor that visits your home so you can “shop”? A want.

      - Shelter? A need (house or apartment). A 12K sq. ft. $1.04M gated estate with 8.5 bathrooms and 5 bedrooms – oh, and an additional 4700 sq ft. “mini-mansion” with 4 bedrooms and 4.5 baths that sits empty a few miles from your new estate? A want.

      I could go on, but you get my point.

      I think I see in your writings and reflections that club members and the false pastors are the same in this way: All of them want the lifestyle that the false teacher has – that is why they are so easily manipulated. Is that what I’m hearing you say?

      YES! That’s exactly my point. These pimps have successfully sold the “God wants you rich/prosperity is your birthright/speak those things” garbage so well that they’ve feed into the sinful and lustful flesh that all of us try to submit to Jesus Christ daily. When you buy into that innane blood-lust, you willingly “play the lottery” hoping that your “number will hit oneday”.

      And I was one of the main proponents of that crap. No matter how much I “named and claimed”, “sowed into good ground”, “paid God to open the windows of Heaven”, and demanded that God make good on His “promises to me in His Word” (may God continue to have mercy on me for ever submitting to those vile lies from the pit of hell), I never got a “return on my investment” – I figured that either the pimps were lying or God was, and we KNOW that He is not a liar.

      These degenerates will always have an audience because there will always be a willing audience that wants to be “blessed in this lifetime”. :roll:

      What has God done to free you from those illicit wants?

      Like you, He drives me to Him daily so that I am reminded that I am NOTHING apart from Him. I have employed prudent wisdom in all matters of my life. I test everything by the Spirit to determine if it’s my flesh that wants to (lash out in this blog, react to a perceived wrong against me or my family, reach out to someone who isn;t ready to listen to God’s truth yet, etc.) and I follow the direction of the Holy Spirit. As I said to you before, the Holy Spirit literally constrains the words written on this blog – half the stuff I write never makes it here because God tests every Word, and the ones that don’t glorify Him are never published.

      I am leaning entirely and solely on Him.

      What must your readers and the larger culture do to be set free from those wants?
      Is there an aspect of our culture – American, Black church, pentecostal or any other – that we need to attack in intercessory prayer?

      First, you have to want to be free. we can claim John 8:32 all we want, but we must also remember what Jesus said in John 8:31:

      So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine

      It takes work to be a disciple – you have to study the Word, share the Word (with people who aren’t sitting in the pew next to you), meditate on the Word, dig through the Word, and hide the Word in your heart – not just take the word of someone who appears to read from the bible. If you don’t do that then you don’t want to know His truth – or be made free.

      No one is immune to this heresy, but it does appear to be geared toward us blacks (both the poor and the upwardly mobile – appelaing to our desire to move seamlessly in the white mans world with the one agent that is colorblind: money), the marginalized members of our society, those who want “their piece of the American dream”, and the biblically ignorant – primarily because this heresy teaches a sort of “divine stimulus package”: you don’t have to do anything for thie “blessing”, just sit and wait for it…better yet, demand it!.

      This heresy also feeds our desire to be entertained through theatrics (thus the need to keep building stadiums because people are comfortable in a sports arena cheering on their favorite team) and good music (thus the plethora of unrepentant homosexuals who have taken over black gospel music but can live in sin with no fear of retribution from God or their audience because they “sing good”).

      When confronted with a stubborn demon that “holy men” could not evict, Jesus responded in almost exasperation at what He saw taking place around Him that “this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting” (Matthew 17:21). I would imagine that He still shakes His head at what He’s seeing today. We need to fast, intercede on behalf of those who feel trapped in this strong delusion, fast, shepherd recent escapees from these sick cults, disciple, teach the Word (from the ground up) and hold them accountable – and encourage them to go back and get another survivor.

      This is my daily prayer Pastor Jim.

  4. 11 Pamela March 4, 2009 at 9:47 am

    I also smiled while reading the hoop preaching text.

    May those millions that are wising up and sharing the truth become the mainstay of Christian media in the VERY NEAR FUTURE:) My hope is that all teachings that exemplify the law are obliterated. Those that share that truth better be ready for persecution for it.

    Thank God for truth.

  5. 12 ace March 4, 2009 at 11:20 am

    WHOOOOOOHOOOOOO! Amen, Amen, AMEN! I was under such bondage to these “ministries” and I even went behind my husband’s back to “support” them because I was so desperate for God to not be robbed. WRONG!

    Keep telling the truth.

    By the way, I never understood why Paul even said in the Bible that he was not a great speaker to the point that some were disappointed in him….yet many “preachers” have to act like morons and shout and “HUH” constantly. It is annoying. Like doing that makes what you are saying holy?

    Also, boy what a scam.If you work for these people you have to give back parts of your salary as a love offering? Better to work for non-”Chrisitans” as they are not tithe terrorists.

    I have NO problem with supporting ACTUAL pastoral staff and their families in the manner that the CONGREGATION can provide. But I DO have a problem with them driving fancy cars off of MY tithes when I drive broken down used ones.

    How is THAT of God?

    Many Blessings :)
    Ace

  6. 13 John 8:32 March 4, 2009 at 11:54 am

    ST,

    Once again a brilliant article. Glad I could inspire. To be totally transparent I’m still recovering from my experience at the “Club”. God had a purpose for us being there witnessing the mess. I think back now on how Dre’ needed to know the “numbers” as soon as the count was finished on Sunday’s and Wednesday’s. I also think about his “Sons” who labored for him while he was vacationing in some exotic place and the shepple (me included) thinking that the love offering was going to the Elders and Ministers who labored in his place. False! Dre’ gave them about $150 max and still raked in the “love offering” for himself. I guess that was what he meant when he would say “you can make money while you’re sleeping”. God has revealed so much to me since I left and I thank Him that through Jesus Christ that he has cleansed my spirit of that mess.

    • 14 escapeetoo March 4, 2009 at 1:21 pm

      John 8:32,

      I believe that for some reason God won’t take us too far away from “The Club” experience. I am still recovering from the entire experience myself. However the experience caused me to draw towards the Lord and repel from man and Pulpit Pimps.

      We all got pimped. Those of us who escaped from the “stroll” are accessing the truth (That has always been there) for ourselves. Pray for the lost ones still in Club Hustle & Flow who are jockeying for position and sowing money into a man who only has a heart for money.

    • 15 speaking truth March 4, 2009 at 1:45 pm

      John 8:32 – it’s going to take time for you to completely get that crap out of your system. Even more that a year after my exodus, I still find myself shaking my head at the foolishness I used to participate in and endorse.

      You are absolutely right – God has a purposed for all of us to travel through the mire like we did. We were under strong delusion, and completely unapproachable by anyone outside of our club cult, in fact we branded anyone who tried to present us with truth as “haters” and “trouble makers” who didn’t “reverence the mand of gawd”. We kicked them to the curb just like people have kicked us to the curb since we returned to the Lord.

      But God in His sovereign love for us allowed us to respond to His Spirit when we couldn’t hide our disdain any longer. He even forgave us (like He has done time and time again) and gave us His grace to try to present His truth to others – just as some had attempted to do to us. He even gives us His joy when we (and ultimately, His truth) is rejected as hatred and bitterness.

      Just as I praise God and weep in rejoicing that you fled the heresy, you too will rejoice when another flees, and another, and another. Our entire lives are lived for God’s glory – and we have the priveledge of seeing His will being done before our very eyes. You’ll have days where you’re angry and want to lash out in fleshly retribution, but you’ll get over that – and you’ll have many more days when you’re presenting the truth of the Word to ears that truly hunger for it.

      Just keep availing yourself to Him – and resolve to NEVER fall prey to that demonic pimp industry again, no matter how you may think it’s tentacles have not reached beyond that God forsaken cult.

      • 16 N'Catina March 4, 2009 at 4:58 pm

        Excellent, IST. That’s where I am now…..13 months since my departure and counting….

      • 17 Fedup March 5, 2009 at 1:48 pm

        Because of what God has inspired you to put into words, I received that final nudge to flee the “club” just a short time ago. It was liberating and a little scary at the same time. We get used to a routine even when its a bad one and out of complacency we accept less than what God truly desires for us. All of you who have fled these “houses of deception” have such powerful testimonies and for people such as myself I yield a sigh of relieve realizing that I am not alone.

        Its sad that it takes so much for us to finally make necessary moves, but thanks be to God’s grace that he loves us even in our most ignorant moments.

        I would like to share with the collective another illustration of how the shepple are continuously trampled and ignored.

        In our great state of GA there is a “mand of gawd” who left hurricane battered New Orleans to make his new home here amongst us. The storm in NO happened to not only damage his congregation and his physical church, but also his RR Phantom. For those that know cars RR Phantoms cost 300-400k. This great “mand of gawd” took the insurance check to another “WOF” church in Tennesee and before the congregation presented the check to his fellow “mand of gawd”. This check was to not be used to lift up God’s people. The recipient pastor was to use the funds to purchase a Phantom for himself (since he always spoke of how much he loved that car). When my friend who is a member of that TN church shared that story with me, he did so with such great admiration and pride. I could only say WOW to keep from using words and expressions that God would not approve of. To say it simply I was angry and my anger was then followed by sadness.

        These club owners have their own exclusive club and they do not worship our Lord. They worship money, themselves and each other. Materialism and greed have deeply corrupted the most sacred and non-sacred of places. There is a lot of work to be done.

        ST I encourage you and your cohorts to continue the great work you are doing through this Ministry (blogsite). You are truly blessed with a gift of discernment and delivery. Don’t hold back. We are in need of radical Christ-like change.

        • 18 speaking truth March 5, 2009 at 6:31 pm

          Thank God you finally left FedUp. I’d been praying for you specifically, and I rejoice in the Lord that you are no longer a part of that cult. I was getting a bit teary-eyed…until you started talking about how Pimp Paul Morton is “sowing” his Rolls Royce insurance money into another pimp in Tennessee (J.W. Walker III, I presume?).

          You’re right – these hirelings despise God and worship mammon, and He will not forget it when the day of reckoning comes.

          • 19 djenk23 March 5, 2009 at 8:20 pm

            this is what im talking about…to see God use yall to help someone else out of Churchianity is amazing….someone told me that sites like yours(GCMW, Pulpit Pimps, etc) only feed gossip hungry, scandal craving individuals…that person was more concerned with the “image” of the church in front of the world than the people that have been actually helped by you(and others)…do like Isaiah 50:7 and keep pushing forward, brother…

            • 20 speaking truth March 5, 2009 at 9:53 pm

              Glory to God alone, djenk23. This blog and others are simply illustrations of what we as Christians should be doing in our everyday lives – in every area of influence that we operate in: debunking the liars who pose as Christians (embarrassing true Christians) and presenting the unadulterated uncompromising Word of God…as is.

              I’ll keep sounding the alarm as long as the Lord allows…

  7. 21 truthofgod March 4, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    Yeah, i agree with the other posters, this was definately comical, why? Because, to my sad regret, this folly is all too common. Yet as you stated there are some fundamental differences between the Apostles and the modern day apostates. Referencing Paul he said in

    Acts 20:33-35

    33″I have coveted no one’s silver or gold or clothes.

    34″You yourselves know that these hands ministered to my own needs and to the men who were with me.

    35″In everything I showed you that by working hard in this manner you must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He Himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

    Its obvious that Pauls conscience was clear and free from greed, because he didn’t covet (or beg) for any material things from anyone. In this circumstance he said his hands ministered to his own needs, meaning that he worked to support himself. This served as an example to the saints not only on how to support self but to “help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus”….

    With that said, i wonder how often it is taught, in many of these churches, to help the widows, orphans, and the poor. Not hardly.

    Anyways, good post brother

  8. 22 Pamela March 4, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    I guess living in Tulsa since 1977, where the vast majority of this madness started, makes me really think about this comment:

    No one is immune to this heresy, but it does appear to be geared toward us blacks (both the poor and the upwardly mobile – appealing to our desire to move seamlessly in the white mans world with the one agent that is colorblind: money), the marginalized members of our society, those who want “their piece of the American dream”, and the biblically ignorant – primarily because this heresy teaches a sort of “divine stimulus package”: you don’t have to do anything for thie “blessing”, just sit and wait for it…better yet, demand it!.

    When I first started hearing this at ORU as a freshman (each student was given a copy of Oral’s seed-faith book) the main audiences were white people. For a good number of years the whites were the main ones adhering to this stuff. ORU, Rhema Bible Training Center, Victory and all the major Charismatic schools and churches preached this stuff. The black preachers that I was around were not embracing a lot of the extremes other than the tithe madness, except maybe those that attended ORU. It was not initially embraced by a lot of blacks. They correctly viewed them as greedy lovers of money. I don’t know when that changed really. It seems like I noticed it more when Creflo Dollar became popular. Funny enough he was on the air in other areas, like the DC area, long before he was on the air here in Tulsa. I wonder if he being connected to Kenneth Copeland maybe influenced other black preachers to jump into this madness. As stated the blacks are definitely on the bandwagon these days. The one difference to me is that they are more blatant about stating that you have to give to the ‘mand of gawd’ (Creflo’s favorite line these days).

    Thank God for truth.

    • 23 speaking truth March 4, 2009 at 4:31 pm

      Interesting observation Pamela – especially since you’re right there at “ground zero” for the word of faith movement (Tulsa).

      I want to reiterate to those who might want to take this conversation down the “whites vs. blacks” road when it comes to “who’s more gullible”: Vipers come in all shapes, sizes, forms, and colors.

      While it does appear that the black and poor communities are the initial target for these wolves (remember Dan Mundell traveling across rural Georgia & Florida, leaving a slimy trail behind him?), they are not opposed to appealling to the lust of the flesh of every socio-economic class and race.

      I draw your attention to an excerpt of an articile I wrote last summer:

      The Disappearing Middle Class…In The Church

      I’ve seen it up close:

      pastor so-and-so spends 10 minutes after every sermon telling you how God wants you to be rich (after he has you recite a scripture – out of context – exclaiming that you are a tither and that God HAS TO rebuke the devourer for your sake).

      He points to his own lifestyle and how he “activated his faith” in order to walk in God’s abundance.
      He also talks about how “the anointing flows from the head down”, so if you give him your money, you’ll be blessed too!

      He then says that tithing is “just an entry level action – you can’t get a return unless you sow first fruit, love offering, offering, building fund, first lady’s birthday” blah blah blah.
      “Don’t hate on your neighbor! If God is blessing them, at least you know he’s in the neighborhood!” (que the jumpy organ music and the running around the church while babbling in “tongues” at that “revelation”)

      At that point, the “haves” pour their earnings into the coffers and anxiously await their “return”. The “have nots” are told “God knows your heart, and He knows that you will give when you get it because you have a heart to give”.

      Sometimes, the “haves” even pass a few bucks the “have nots” – or the pimp peels a few bucks out of his money clip to give a “have not”- and as a sign of obedience to the pimp prophet, the “have not” drops the money into the coffers and gives it RIGHT BACK TO THE PIMP…waiting on their return as well.

      The pimp may even read an email that he received from a “have” detailing how “God was faithful to the seed that they sowed last week, and He returned their tithe PLUS INTEREST!”, further stoking the allegiance of the “haves” – and the envy and determination of the “have nots”.

      Meanwhile, the middle class is looking around wondering what is going on. They give out of obedience to the pimp prophet because they earnestly want to please God (and the pimp prophet told them that this pleases God). They also, however see that they’re not getting the promised return.

      They grow weary of hearing the same begging speech over and over again – and seeing the pimps parade of new cars, suits, and homes. They also grow weary of seeing the poorest among them exploited, and they’re tired of feeling guilty when they give $100 to a homeless person instead of standing in the “money line” at the church revival later that evening.

      So, they leave – hoping to find a church home that teaches the true meaning of giving, and that God is not a slot-machine, and that his people are not to be neglected while we pursue earthly treasures that we can’t take with us when we die anyway.

    • 24 johnwesely January 6, 2010 at 2:45 am

      Praise GOD,
      SO MANY YEARS.I AM PRAYING AND PRAYING GOD FOR TRUTH SPEAKING BELIEVERS. EVERY MINISTRY LOVES OFFERINGS.NOW MY VISION WAS FULFILLED. AMEN, AMEN,I AM PRAISING GOD HEAVENLY FATHER JESUS CHRIST.
      RECENTLY I RECEIVED MAIL FROM USA.THAT IS MANY SOULS ARE SAVED IN THAT CONVENTION.SO I HEARD THAT I AM VERY HAPPY .” DOLLAR CANNOT CHANGE THE SOULS”. THE WORD OF GOD WILL CHANGE THE LIVES.
      IN JESUS NAME
      JOHNWESELY.G

  9. 25 gcmwatch March 4, 2009 at 4:41 pm

    Hey ST, (hup) you got that preaching cadence (hup) downnnnnnnnnn, dont cha?
    Lol

    • 26 speaking truth March 4, 2009 at 4:45 pm

      How else do you think I get my family to give me a love offering when I teach here at home, gcmwatch?

      Those ungrateful children of mine are starting to get stingy and taking advantage of “the gift that God has placed in their midst”
      :lol:

  10. 28 Michael Pharr March 5, 2009 at 8:14 am

    IST,

    Man that hoop was right on point. I was about to start running up to the altar and drop a seed at your feet, because you made me feel good. (Side note: Is that similar to a lady throwing her underwear on stage at a Rock concert…anyway). It’s sad when you are told that you love someone by the amount of money you give to a person, and on top of that if you “sow up” you are going to be really blessed. I could go on and on about this New Age, Spiritual Lotto game. It confuses me when preachers call God; sovereign…..but then seconds later they say; He can’t do anything w/out the permission of Christians and if you give enough….God is OBLIGATED (huh) to bless you.

    - M. Pharr

  11. 30 prayrwarrior March 5, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    IST,
    This was humorous and sad at the same time, but the unvarnished truth is like that. I have a question I want to ask about people throwing money at the pastor’s feet. I do not see that as Biblical; I cannot find supporting Scripture for it. My pastor (on a Sunday I was out-go figure) asked the congregation to start giving a little extra money, and to bring it to the altar, while he is preaching. Like I say, I cannot find Scripture for it. We have 2 trays at offering time, one for tithes and offerings, one for a ministry that helps church members and the homeless. To me, that would be the time to give, not to disrespect the pastor and disrupt the service displaying our flesh. I just don’t understand it and will not do it. I just want to ask you if you see any Biblical basis for this, or is this pimpery? And yes, I will be asking him as well..

    • 31 speaking truth March 5, 2009 at 6:18 pm

      prayrwarrior – the reason you can’t find the “bring the money to the altar” phenomenon is because IT DOES NOT EXIST (imagine that). Your pastor has been watching to many “mend of gawd” and learning the wrong thing. First, I don’t necessarily have a problem with plate-passing, but the altar giving is a ploy that has no real biblical meaning. Here’s how it goes:

      - The pimp says that you need to “sow into good ground” whenever you get the chance, that “you can’t worship God without first sacrificing something”…again, more twisting of scripture to support their lust for tithes, offerings, love offerings, and first fruit.

      - Next, the pimp says “this altar is good ground. Anytime God is speaking, you need to get up and lay a seed offering on the altar to let God know that you agree with Him and are sacrificing your seed and expecting an increase”

      They literally get-off (please excuse my direct language) when they see people getting up and running to the altar to lay money on it while their babbling on about their nonsensical philosophy (because they certainly aren’t expositionally or topically teaching the Word of God). It strokes their egos to see people “responding” while they’re presenting their motivational speeches.

      My brother IndependentConservative wrote an excellent and detailed article on the “money on the altar” phenomenon when he wrote about a Detroit pimp a few years ago – scroll to the middle of the article subtitled “Fake Altars”

      Remember the Words of Christ the next time you see people tripping over each other to “sacrifice their seeds at the altar”:

      Matthew 6:1-4 (New American Standard Bible)

      1″Beware of practicing your righteousness before men (A)to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
      2″So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they (B)may be honored by men (C)Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.

      3″But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,

      4so that your giving will be in secret; and (D)your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you

      It’s pimpery – pure and simple.

      • 32 escapeetoo March 6, 2009 at 8:49 am

        ST,

        You are right you can’t find “bring the money to the altar” in the word. You can find the Brazen Altar animal sacrifices in the O.T. (Man I wonder what they would do with a Bull up in Hustle & Flow)

        “Altar Calls” in the traditional Protestant Church was a call for salvation. Today the pimps of this age use the altar to pimp:

        http://escapee.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/sacrifice-do-you-want-money-a-bull-or-christ/

        • 33 young1lookin4thetruth March 6, 2009 at 2:31 pm

          Ok just my little input….a pastor I used to sit under during my first year in college said the money being thrown on the altar came from people laying things at the apostles feet in Acts. I can’t remember the exact verse but I’m sure someone up here might know what I’m talking about. I think the context was distributing everybody’s contributions to those in need.

          Of course the pastor was saying that in Acts the people weren’t throwing up money because they heard a good word or they wanted to be blessed. They did this because they were offering up something that belonged to them to help out those less fortunate around them. In today’s services people do the opposite. No one throws up money to help somebody less fortunate in their congregation. They throw up money expecting to receive something back.

          Please anybody clarify my statements for me because I don’t mind being corrected. I’m in the learning process :)

  12. 34 prayrwarrior March 6, 2009 at 12:41 am

    Thank you so much. I will go and read IC’s article now. This and a lot of other things that are extra-Biblical (2nd Book of Hesitations) are starting to happen in the church and I need to address them there as well as seek the LORD possibly for a new church.

  13. 35 Douglas K. Adu-Boahen March 6, 2009 at 11:05 am

    How do you call a “love offering” a love offering when YOU ARE OBLIGATED to do so?

    • 36 young1lookin4thetruth March 6, 2009 at 2:33 pm

      Doug you have an excellent point, indeed. It’s not out of love just like ST’s title says…Love (has nothing to do with it) offering….

  14. 37 Gsharon710 April 4, 2009 at 12:29 am

    Just to plain clothed the Pimp sermon, I shall attempt to use plain, small, understandable language.

    “Now open your wallets with me as I tell you how God wants it to be in my church. Now when I ask for money, I ain’t lying, I want it and want it now. How dare you steal from God. We don’t want ten percent of your talent nor time, just the money. What! you say your bank account is down to five dollars? Tell ya what, You get that check book out and write one to me for two thousand dollars and you will get sooo much back. Have faith, send that check before midnight tonight and I hope you have a bank that will transfer funds from your savings to your checking before I skip to the bank. I am planning a christian cruise for the wealthy, healthy saints like myself, but if you are poor, you can still donate and help us tip the ship workers. Don’t worry about food, what do you think chow lines are for. If you don’t send that money now, I will ask God to shoot you for stealing His money. You little grammas send me that lil grocery money, you know I need more makeup and wigs. Buy all my books I tell you, buy now. I will tell you how to own several homes, cars, planes and thousand dollar inkpens and do it all tax free, in the nammmme of Jes-sus. When your check clear, I will blow on a piece of white cloth and send it to you as my thanks. Next pimp-a-thon is coming up next month so you start now, saving your pennies, mortgage your home, tell the Doctor you don’t need medicine because your pastor healed you, and for real, don’t, I said don’t buy a new used car! Why my horses and dogs could eat months off what your car will cost. If you hear rumors about my sexuality, tell the devil to get out of your face, and curse them well. Now I know your children may not have beautiful homes in a compound that is free, free, free, but if you listen to the words from the pulpit today, you too can be one of us! Open another checking account just for your seed and you can send us blank checks so if you happen to be ill or in the hospital, we can still accept your seed. Don’t let those heathen doctors tell you that that expensive medicine is needed, they just want to keep their kids in college. Imagine them !! Trying to take what belongs to me, oh oh, I mean God.
    Next time you tune in, you will see a new pulpit. The old stuff we purchased last year needed updating in color. You make sure your grown children don’t snoop through your papers. What is between you and me should stay that way. Oh, I see my limo is here, well, remember, we love you, (sniff, sniff) and remember
    WHAT IS YOURS, IS MINE!!!!!!

  15. 38 Gsharon710 April 4, 2009 at 12:33 am

    Oh yes, I almost forgot, Do not, I mean do Not support your home church. Let us be your all. You see, your home church pastor can’t live like we live so they must be doing something wrong.


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