“…get me my money!”

*Brace yourselves, because this article is very lengthy. The subject, however is vitally important, and many need to hear it, confirm it with the Word of God, and flee false doctrine…

the-mack

Listen to me and listen good. I don’t give a s..t what happened to you. You hear me? Now get yourself together, get back out there and git me my money! - “Goldie” from the 1973 classic “The Mack”

Goldie the pimp lashed out at his “employee” (which is what desperate pimps do) because his cash flow began to severely constrict. He didn’t care about competition, the economy, or lack of “customers” – Goldie wanted his money!

Well, those words might have also been uttered recently by the Senior Pastor Pimp at Higher Living Christian Church (formerly New Birth South). I have written extensively about The Pimp of Hampton (GA) and his club in the past – overtly and covertly. The club is leaking leaders and members like the Titanic, and people are finally growing weary of hearing lie heaped upon lie, amateurishly disguised as the Word of God. No matter how many trinkets are dangled in front of the lemmings sheep who are still there because they need “covering”, the money is beginning to only trickle in. Sure, people are losing their jobs, homes, and families – but they are also sick and tired of seeing The Pimp of Hampton driving a Bentley, living in a $1M home, and prospering (with their help, no doubt) as they continue to suffer hardship.

So, the Pimp of Hampton has channeled his inner “Goldie” and resorted to doing what any self-respecting pimp would do…threaten to unleash his mafia on them if they don’t pay up.

I have been hearing (from multiple unrelated sources) about “the letter” – an intimidating correspondence sent out to anyonewho serves in leadership at The Pimp of Hampton’s club AND is in arrears on their “tithe payments” (from ministers and paid church staff all the way down to nursery volunteers). This correspondence is sent to put them on notice that “Daddy” isn’t happy with their inconsistent tithing, and he’s not going to take it anymore. 

“Dis-fellowshiping” church members for not “tithing” is nothing new, yet the threat is still surprising.

Even though I know how desperate The Pimp of Hampton has become recently, I would never have believed the tone of “the letter” – until someone sent a copy of it so that I could share it with the blogosphere (personal information redacted):

Hello (name redacted),

The 2008 End of Year Financials & contribution statements are closed and Pastor Landers has been provided with a view of the 2008 tithing records for ALL ministry leads and it’s CRITICAL that EVERYONE is operating in the order of the house as a member and LEADER of Higher Living Christian Church.

Consistency in tithing is not optional for LEADERS. It is a requirement. Any LEADERS experiencing tithing issues at the close of 2008 will be subject to a probationary warning letter and a quarterly review of their contributions, throughout year 2009. If tithing requirements are not met, LEADERS Will be subject to disciplinary action including suspension or being asked to step down from leadership. The next review of LEADER contributions is scheduled on April 1, 2009.

(personal information redacted – essentially stating that the recipient of the letter agreed to “submit to leadership” when they joined) adhering and following the leadership of the Senior Pastor and the leadership that has been appointed to the lead the ministry in which you are submitted and committed. Consistency in tithing is a condition of your submission and commitment to God and with the Higher Living Christian Church ministry. Failure to adhere to any HLCC governing policies can lead to probationary warnings, suspension or dismissal.

Are you interested in bi-weekly automatic debit drafts for your tithe and contributions?

Obtain a automatic draft form from Deacon (name redacted) or (name redacted) for processing.

Are you busy serving on Sunday and forget to drop your tithes in the offering basket?

Place your tithes on the altar, prior to service or make sure to utilize the brown receptacles in the main lobby or near the elevator, before or after service.

“Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed me in tithes and offerings. You are cursed with a curse, for you have robbed me. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house, and try me now in this, says the Lord of hosts, If I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you such blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sake, so that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground.” (Malachi 3:8-11)

Yup. The Pimp of Hampton is teetering on the edge of insanity – and this salvo sent even more contributors to the exits recently as well.

Rather than shaking my head in dismay and thanking God through Jesus Christ that I no longer subscribe to this foolish cult-like heresy, please indulge me for a moment as I succinctly present scriptural proof that tithing is an Old Testament law that modern day pulpit pimps, wolves, vipers, false teachers, money grubbers et al wield as a 10% tax and intimidation technique to take your money.

Let me be clear – we are commanded by God to give for the furtherance of the Gospel, the care of the Elder who preaches the Gospel, and the needs of those around us (from our household to the community and more). We are not commanded to contribute a fixed amount (a tax, if you will) under the duress of an imminent curse. In 2 Corinthians 9:6-8, Paul commends the Corinthian church to give generously and in joy – inside and outside of the church, and we should give according to our income (1 Corinthians 16:1-2). We should practice what I call “grace giving” – giving as the Lord leads to whomever He leads you to give – and in whatever amount. Many embrace the tithe (pastors and parishioners) because it is “lazy benevolence” – it’s easier to give “to the church” and hope that they will distribute money and aid throughout the community instead of bringing food, diapers, money, and other resources directly to those in need yourself.

The averageChristian would rather lay $100 at the alter and expect their “breakthrough” than to give that same $100 to a single mother scraping her change together in the Kroger supermarket, primarily because the average Christian has been convinced that God will curse them if they don’t lay that money at the alter, whereas ignoring the single mother in need won’t cause the “devourer” to “invade their storehouse”.

Tithing was a requirement of Old Testament law where the Israelites were told to give 10% of their earnings and crops to the Tabernacle. Since the priests lived in the Tabernacle, they were sustained by the tithes (or 10% “tax”) of their “congregation” (Deuteronomy 26:12-15). Numbers 18 details the ordinance of the priesthood, including tithing and its original intent, and Leviticus 27:30, Deuteronomy 14:24, and 2 Chronicles 31:5 all offer evidence of the requirement of tithing for Jews under the Old Covenant.

Aside from Paul’s admonitions to care for the needs of the Gospel, there is no reference under the New Covenant (through Jesus Christ) that Christians are required to pay any tithe or tax. There are countless mentions of giving for the sake of the saints, but no mention of a set percentage as a “minimum”. Even when Jesus mentions the tithe in the New Testament, it is in reference to Jews and their custom (Matthew 23:23). Paul even admonishes that saints pay for the care of good elders (1 Corinthians 9:9-14), but even Paul doesn’t advocate throwing good money after bad when you see that your money is being wasted on extravagant living and excess while those in need (in your own congregation)still go lacking. And just to be completely clear – The Pimp of Hampton does NOT live in his club – he has a $1M home surrounded by a gate to keep the great unwashed at bey. He should be well compensated for serving in Gospel ministry, but he should preach the TRUE Gospel, and he SHOULD NOT live in extravagance while the sheep under his care are suffering…AND HE SHOULD NOT KEEP BEGGING FOR MORE.

Having said all of that, the tithing legalists will talk about how tithing is applicable because it falls within the order of the priesthood of Melchizedek (or some other wishy-washy recounting of Abraham paying a tithe to Melchizedek). When you read Hebrews 7 in (entirety and in context) we see the true application of the Levitical priesthood AFTER the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and Hebrews 8 details our New Covenant under Jesus Christ. Further, Hebrews 7:12 explicitly details the shift from the Old to the New Covenant.

And for those of you who adhere to the admonition of your pimp to “give your tithe first before you give anything to anybody else!”, you would do well to heed 1 Timothy 5:8 (my emphasis in bold):

But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Rather than address “the letter” line by line, I’ll tackle it in whole. The Pimp of Hampton can hand down any edict that he wants – it’s his church (I know…it should be “God’s church”, but it’s not. The Pimp of Hampton has fashioned and designed a kingdom after his own heart, and he got it – so the Lord has nothing to do with that club). The staffers who work there who were threatened with being fired unless they got “caught up” on their tithes received a valid threat because Georgia is a right-to-work state, which means that you can quit your job for any reason, and you can be fired from your job for any reason.

Threatening people who volunteer in ministry is within the pimp’s right as well – again, it’s his club. When you submit to a pimp and his authority, then you are subject to the pimps rules (see Goldie’s quote above). It does not matter that you lost your job, are supporting family and friends with your “extra” money, or you’ve just decided to stop paying your tax to the club, the pimp has decreed that your service is useless unless you are “in good standing” with your giving. To him and his ilk, your giving is equal to or greater than your heart for the service of God.

Your first peek into the heart of the Pimp of Hampton should have been his lack of concern about why your money is tight right now…just the fact that your money is tight and he hasn’t seen it much lately.

Where I draw the line to separate the pimp’s rights and heresy is the continual intentional twisting of Malachi 3:10 (or in this case, Malachi 3:8-11). Please pay close attention – when you read the book of Malachi in entirety, you will see that God is pronouncing His judgement on disobedient priests who absconded the sacrificial offerings for themselves. In fact, Malachi 2 is subtitled “Priests to be Disciplined”. So, as you see, we have to go through 2 full books of scripture where God is “spanking” the priests before we get to Malachi 3, and specifically verses 8-11.

When you read the Word of God in context, you see just how far off base the pimps are when extorting your money. You are bound and intimidated into giving a tax for fear of eternal curse and damnation from God – yet His Word clearly states that He wasn’t even talking about you! But the pimps don’t want you to read the Word for yourself, because you’ll then have no need for his “covering”.

It’s shameful, it’s despicable, and it is an affront to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the liberation we have through His Redeeming Blood. Ask yourself, why would God send His Son to free us from the bondage of sin and death yet require us to pay into a system of bondage that never applied to us?

If you are reading this article and you are still a member of the Pimp of Hampton’s club (and I know this blog is well read and discussed within the club), then you must repent of your allegiance to this false gospel, flee the cult that you have been involved in, and repent before the Lord Jesus Christ. Find yourself a bible believing pastor who preaches and teaches for the glory of God and not the fame and adoration of men (hint, you might have to find a church that does not have a television ministry, or a huge building).

The Lord Himself knows of your distress, and He will repay those who intentionally deceive you in His Name:

Jeremiah 23:11-12 (New American Standard Bible)

11“For (A)both prophet and priest are polluted;
         Even in My house I have found their wickedness,” declares the LORD. 
    12“Therefore their way will be like (B)slippery paths to them,
         They will be driven away into the (C)gloom and fall down in it;
         For I will bring (D)calamity upon them,
         The year of their punishment,” declares the LORD.

And since the Pimp of Hampton also reads this blog, pray for him. Pray that he repent before the Lord and return to his First Love, lest his false teaching continue to anger the Lord:

Jeremiah 23:1-4 (New American Standard Bible)

 1(A)Woe to the shepherds who are (B)destroying and scattering the (C)sheep of My pasture!” declares the LORD.

 2Therefore thus says the LORD God of Israel concerning the shepherds who are tending My people: “You have scattered My flock and driven them away, and have not attended to them; behold, I am about to (D)attend to you for the (E)evil of your deeds,” declares the LORD.

 3“Then I Myself will (F)gather the remnant of My flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and bring them back to their pasture, and they will be fruitful and multiply.

 4“I will also raise up (G)shepherds over them and they will tend them; and they will (H)not be afraid any longer, nor be terrified, (I)nor will any be missing,” declares the LORD.

For more solid biblical exegesis of tithing, see these excellent resources:

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65 Responses to ““…get me my money!””


  1. 1 John 8:32 February 11, 2009 at 5:18 pm

    ST,

    All I can say right now is Excellent article! God has given you an awesome gift. I’ll comment later as the Lord leads me and thanks for your support!

    [ST: Glory to God, brother. I praise God through Jesus Christ that God's truth has indeed made you free!]

  2. 2 young1lookin4thetruth February 11, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    Wow is all I can say. (Hey by the way, I haven’t stopped by your blog in a while and I just commented on IC’s.) To not tithe has been a hard pill for me to swallow and I think it’s because I’ve been taught all my life that I should or I’ll be cursed as you mentioned. It’s like I understand everything that you have presented here and that I’ve read on other sites about the same subject but there’s this “voice” in the back of my mind saying how can I be so sure that the info I find here or anywhere else is true? why would I drop everything I have been taught for this that seems to not be such a mainstream belief? And I think that’s the problem…people around me knock me down for trying to present what I’ve learned from here and studying the Bible for myself and I get discouraged and say what’s the use? They look to be doing fine to me believing all of these so called “mend of gawd” but in the end I know it’s all ear-tickling “garbage” that doesn’t profit us at all listening to.

    I’m still trying to learn and understand everything I come across on y’all’s blogs and in the Word in general and I’m asking God for wisdom to understand all He has already explained in the scriptures. It’s just taking me a while but I’m glad y’all stopped me in my tracks while I’m young (19 can’t wait til I’m 20 :D ) because it’s no telling how far deep I would be into this foolishness as the years go by.

    [ST:Great to see you back Y1L4TT! I praise God that you are searching His Word for the truth and re-evaluating everything you thought you knew to see what He says about it. The fact that you are meeting with resistance is not surprising in the least. False doctrine is heavily ingrained in the average Christian's thinking. Don't take my word or any other blog's word for anything. Be like a Berean and search the scriptures for yourself, that way you will never go wrong. Keep managing to read the Word and sound theological works in-between your college studies..it's well worth it. And trust me, if I had the zeal for God's Word when I was your age, I would never have gone through the mounds of garbage I had to weigh through - but that drove me to the Word and that glory belongs to God alone. Don't stay away too long next time :-)]

  3. 3 djenk23 February 11, 2009 at 7:55 pm

    that “tithe or be cursed” thing can be very hard to get rid of…i think that its hard for people to believe that you can get something for nothing…salvation is free but there has to be a catch, right?…its easier to accept the 10% tax as the catch rather than really being a slave to Christ which is the real catch…its certainly easier for these prosperity pimps to preach the 10% tax…what up with Mr. Landers removing New Birth from the church name?…dont tell me he got tired of paying the New Birth tax…

    [ST:The concept of the tithe is such a part of church culture that you are labeled a demonic liar if you dare open the Word of God to see what He says about it. It is a tax that the pimps have enjoyed using for centuries - and they're getting nervous because the sheep are studying for themselves. And Landers got tired of Eddie Long's looming shadow, so he decided he wanted to build his own kingdom.]

  4. 4 dupednomore February 11, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    Well done! The gloves are now off…….I’m very surprised that no one has stood up to this. The next step will have to include bank statements and paycheck stubs to ensure compliance.

  5. 5 Siva Briggs February 11, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    Gary V it is a shamed what you said; however, you make some very valid points. First, I would like to direct everyone to actually read the book of Deut., which is under the law, concern how tithing was to be done. The says that the children of Israel were to eat their tithes before the Lord and to take care of the priest, the stranger, the widow, and the fatherless with the 10%. Although, we do not live under the law but under grace, tithing is preached in error. If people would actually read the word of God, instead of letting someone else spoonfeed it to them, they would not be deceived.

  6. 6 GaryV February 12, 2009 at 5:38 am

    Brother, don’t be shy. Tell us what you REALLY think LOL!! Excellent article.

  7. 7 Lady D February 12, 2009 at 10:40 am

    Get me my money!!! Thank you brother for exposing the lies of the enemy.
    Response to “Young1looking4truth”, I took the leap almost 2 years ago and have not looked back. I’m a divorced parent with a child, so you know the struggles-I was afraid that if I stopped tithing that I would be cursed with a curse. If I missed a tithe, I would always keep a running tab so that I could pay God back what I “borrowed”-because I didn’t want Him to get mad at me and call me out.
    Thank God for sound doctrine and truthful teaching.
    I was bound up for 20 years, but God has set me free. It was scary at first. God has met every need and even some wants in my home. I still don’t share with people that I don’t tithe unless asked-then I get all kinds of demonic manfestations!.
    Since I’ve stopped tithing, I’ve actually gotten more – raises and bonuses have come and I didn’t have to call them in!!! I’m now able to give to those in need, not those in greed. And that’s the real blessing for me. My focus is on obeying God, not paying God.
    Be blessed, Lady D~

  8. 8 young1lookin4thetruth February 12, 2009 at 10:51 am

    Ok, quick question….I hear my pastor constantly say how he gives tithes and his wife and his children give too. Does that money go to them? And if it does, isn’t it pointless for them to even place that money into the basket when they know it’s coming back to them in some form? And another thing, he was like when things starting acting funny in his life (for example car start acting up, etc.) then the first thing he checks is if his wife and children are tithing. I cracked up when I heard that because I was thinking to myself there is no connection between tithing or not tithing when it comes to your car acting up. Anyway, ST, I stay at these churches knowing that what I’m being taught is wrong. I read your article about why do you stay and yes I must admit I fall under the comfortable category. It’s just hard to lay it all down, but I gotta do it sooner rather than later.

  9. 9 Vaughn February 12, 2009 at 10:55 am

    I’m so very glad that this burden was upon your heart, basically because I have been perusing through the books of The Old Testament lately, Amos & Malachi of late, and must say that the pimp game has been going on for centuries.

    Just looking at the first verses of the first 2 chapters of that book (Malachi) was a bold statement against the priests of Israel.
    Mal 2:1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment [is] for you. (To bad I don’t know how to use the underline feature yet).

    Thanks again ST.

  10. 10 N'Catina February 12, 2009 at 11:16 am

    What you have pointed out, IST, is true to form concerning behavior parallel between Landers (and others) and the mafia.

    It apparent the man is desperate to keep his kingdom from falling, so what better way to do so than run a guilt trip on the “leaders” of his “church?” Note the strategy: the lay members (some, not all) ascribe to be in church leadership for the sake of an ego trip and to be seen of “passa'”. Those already in those positions, as a means of demonstrating “leadership” qualities, have to present themselves a template to be duplicated in all aspects including financial giving. After all, a good leader cannot lead w/o an example, can they?

    I have seen MANY, MANY examples of this in the last two congregations I was once part of. This included seeing a single woman (a deaconness) in her 40s (during the ealrier part of this decade) living in a house that was sparsely furnished, and driving cross-town to church and back multiple times a week in an old car who’s better days were behind it (1999 – 2002).

    Recently, I learned that she no longer owns the house and was renting an apartment in another section of the city. This is one that is at the “church” early and often, and will give her last dime to the institution, totally “submissive” to the extent, sadly, of being led as one leads a dog. The “pastor,” in the meantime, lives in a gated golf community townhome some 20+ miles away from the ghetto where the “church” is located, and will lease TWO Lexus vehicles (one car, one SUV) at once to trade for newer vehicles every 2 – 3 years. All the while, the congregation’s majority either hikes it on public transit or drive a vehicle that can barely go a mile–“leadership” included. Given the present-day tidal wave of bad economics, I can only imagine what the scene looks like today.

    This is another winner of a post, IST. Keep them coming.

  11. 11 N'Catina February 12, 2009 at 11:24 am

    And another thing, he was like when things starting acting funny in his life (for example car start acting up, etc.) then the first thing he checks is if his wife and children are tithing. I cracked up when I heard that because I was thinking to myself there is no connection between tithing or not tithing when it comes to your car acting up. –young1lookin4thetruth, my former boyfriend said the same thing, and I told him just as you were thinking. I was stuck that same predicament for 7.5 years, but my “breakthrough” came in September 2K7 via this site and others by opening my eyes to what I needed to see. I broke free in February 2K8, and haven’t loooked back since.

  12. 12 speaking truth February 12, 2009 at 11:31 am

    Lady D – Glory to God in the highest that He ushered you away from your former foolishness. It is clear that the Lord prospers whom He wills at His pleasure, and we are not cursed if we care for our families and those around us first. I’m sure you were also guilted with the lie that “if you miss your tithe then you have to pay the 10% penalty” and other misquoted scriptural references. It’s interesting how the vultures focus on the 10% tax, yet they ignore other Old Covenant references to taxation (as our brother Dr. Russ Kelley points out on his website):

    - 10% EMPIRE: food spoils-of-war tax to Rome; 20% of fruits; Gen. 14:20

    – 10%+ PROVINCE: King Herod’s tax: 1 Sam. 8:14-17

    – 10%: RELIGIOUS: food tithes; Numbers. 18:20-26

    – 10%: FESTIVALS: food tithe, Deut. 12:6-7; 14:22-23

    [? 3 1/3%: POOR TITHE (10% every third year): Welfare, Deut. 14:28-29; 26:12-13

    PLUS: road taxes; bridge taxes; temple shekel; free-will offerings;

    and many other religious and royal taxes

    TOTAL: 40% BARE MINIMUM TOTAL TAXATION

    Of course, the pimps realize that they can’t get away with fleecing 40% of your money (between them and Uncle Sam, there’d be nothing left in your wallet and you’d be living in the pews yourself), so they stick to the 10% blanket tax because it’s what you grew up learning – and that same scam worked on your parents, and their parents, and so on.

    Y1L4TT – You have just exposed yet another wicked aspect of this guilt-ridden lie to extract your money. The pimp “tithes” to encourage you to do so, so he is tithing your money AND IT ALL GOES BACK TO HIM. It is a pyramid scheme in the purest sense of the term. And God is not moved by donations to Him, so why would He curse your car if you don’t pay Him? That’s as bad as “rebuking the car-problem demon” off of your life :roll:

    N’Catina – Glory to God that He even chooses to use me in my brokeness to point others to Him. I was not only a victim of this twisted garbage, I was an enforcer of it – initiating investigations into the giving records of those seeking ordained leadership…and grilling them about it! Our God has truly shown mercy on me for my past wickedness, and I will expose these vile hirelings for as long as the Lord allows me to draw breath.

    It took me 13 months to study the truth behind tithing…just wait until I shed the light of day on the SHAM KNOWN AS FIRST FRUIT OFFERINGS. I’ve been studying that lie for the past 12 months and I am almost ready to write about it as well.

  13. 13 N'Catina February 12, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    IST, can’t wait for the next installment.

  14. 14 young1lookin4thetruth February 12, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    Thanks guys for sharing your testimonies. It’s encouraging to see that there are more people out there than I think who have left churches who teach tithing and other unbiblical things. I must go on a search starting today of churches in the Raleigh/Durham, NC area (if you’re from there let me know!) who teach good ol’ sound doctrine because I can’t take it any longer. The more I learn and the more I read, the more I can’t stand being under people who I used to adore and reverence almost as much as God. And that in and of itself is wrong because there is no one on God’s level. NO ONE AT ALL. But they sho’ act like they are.

    I CANNOT WAIT FOR THE FIRST FRUITS POST!!!! Oh my God! I knew that was a lie from the beginning especially when I was watching Paula White talk about it.

  15. 15 Steward February 12, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    Ah Yes, good article!

    Under a tithing system, a pimps financial security is not dependent upon freewill givers guided by spiritual discernment. For this fact alone, tithing in the Spirit led Church incubates heretical teaching.

    – jared

  16. 16 gcmwatch February 12, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    Higher /priced/ Living. Cryptic.

    Uhhh, Has he no fear of the Chief Shepherd? Are the sheep to be beaten when their wool is not producing optimum? Jer 3:15 says pastors after God’s heart feed the sheep knowledge, not threaten to beat them because they are not getting off the mammon quick enough.

    Why no concern for the people who have lost/losing homes, jobs, and God knows what else? Is the church going to be converted into a shelter for people who can no longer afford a place to live. Is he concerned at all if the leaders are living holy? If this letter is any indicator of his true nature (read:hireling), as IST said, please leave while God is still speaking to you. Seek God for a place where manipulation is not the ruling spirit. Or, gather your family together worship and teach them God’s word at home. Its just like home-schooling.

    This whole system the contemporary church is built on is a house of dollar bills. Not Christ. Everything, every decision is based on money. Money drives the modern church, not the spirit of God. Does Landers have to pay bills? Sure, but these are unecessary bills he created and now wants people to foot the bills for “his vision”. Big buildings and television shows save no one. Their just a promo tools to get more people into the system, thus more money. Jesus said no man can serve both. One will be clung to and the other despised.

    Folks like Landers, Long and that whole cadre of money-mongers should just admit they despise God. They only use his name as bait to get money to support THEIR kingdom come so THEIR will can be done on earth.

  17. 17 Douglas K. Adu-Boahen February 12, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    Well considering I have never paid so much as a penny in tithes – never had money as a Pentecostal and by the time I started getting any money, I had just become a Reformed Baptist – I have never been sold on it. Didn’t the Bible say that when you give, the right hand ought NOT to know what the left hand was doing? Why then is a pastor telling his congregation that he and his fam are tithing? One reason – the same reason my Dad used to tell his congregation (and still does) – HE WANTS THEM TO KEEP GIVING. It’s using his example as guilt – but didn’t Jesus say:

    Matthew 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify Your Father in Heaven.

    Doesn’t sounds like we go BROADCASTING our good works – but that they are their own reward, but details, details, right?

    Thanks Bro ST for blowing this nonsense OUT of the water.

  18. 18 speaking truth February 12, 2009 at 10:41 pm

    I almost forgot – Pastor John Coleman out of California made a timely video last Spring about greedy pastors more concerenced with their “stuff” than their congregation:

    Greedy Fake Preachers

    Amen, Pastor John.

  19. 19 Caught Thinking February 12, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    I just want to know if I can republish this letter and I’m wondering if the IRS has gotten a hold of this.

    This has to be illegal!!!

    I continue to be disgusted….

    Foolishness!!!!!!!

  20. 21 DoubleGrace February 12, 2009 at 11:37 pm

    Excellent article backed up with scripture. We recently got out of a pimp-run church too; a large church, multi-cultural. We were asked to be deacons, though we hadn’t gone there long and no one REALLY knew anything about us. We were required to agree to tithe, since we were now in leadership. We left only a few months after that because God opened our eyes to not only the false word of faith/prosperity doctrine, but false manifestations as well. The only person who cared to ask why we were leaving was the asso. pastor who “deaconized” us(don’t know the word for it). After we politely told him he politely said ok and that was that. No one else even cares that we don’t go there anymore, even two of our neighbors who still do(I think) but they haven’t bothered to communicate. Oh well. We’re all still on friendly terms as far as I can tell.

  21. 22 escapeetoo February 12, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    What is so troubling is that I bet you that nobody ever looked into WHY was there a decrease in contributuins. This was a perfect opportunity to see what was going on with the people. It is really sad! They (Club Hustle & Flow) know when you are short but don’t know the circumstances at hand! All they want is their money! But then again they don’t care about you or your circumstances!

    Welcome to the reality of today’s economy Landers!

    • 23 speaking truth February 13, 2009 at 8:47 am

      GCMWatch & Steward – you both make very important points about both Landers and the vile tithe-tax scam. The hirelings who push this lie are indeed despising God – specifically because they are knowingly and willfully butchering His Word for personal profit, and intimidating the sheep into submission. That (to me) is a direct middle-finger to God. Sorry for the reference, but it’s just that graphic.

      At the very core, they absolutely do not believe in the Gospel they claim to preach. While they threaten and browbeat the sheep into “trusting God with your money”, they themselves are calling Him “a liar” because they don’t even trust God for provision through gracious giving. Why? Because you can’t build a $1M home on gracious giving. You can’t pad the payroll with family members with gracious giving. You can’t put gas in the Bentley on gracious giving. So now the Gospel becomes a meal ticket as opposed to the liberating message of salvation through Jesus Christ.

      The more I think about it, the more I want to call the IRS myself. But I am content in knowing that our Gracious God will repay.

  22. 24 Pastor Jim February 13, 2009 at 9:57 am

    ST
    Powerful article in response to a horrendous sin. I continue to be amazed at the depth of worldliness you expose in the church.

    Couple questions for you to chew on regarding how we should interpret the OT in particular regarding tithing.

    Is the tithe not mentioned in the NT (but rather generous giving)
    a) because tithing is no longer required
    b) because Christ and other NT writers supported it as Scriptural therefore needing no more comment
    c) some other reason?

    Another question: I don’t do this yet, but have considered putting a page on our website describing our more biblical financial and giving practices. What do you think of such an idea?

  23. 25 speaking truth February 13, 2009 at 10:22 am

    Pastor Jim,

    Is the tithe not mentioned in the NT (but rather generous giving)
    a) because tithing is no longer required
    b) because Christ and other NT writers supported it as Scriptural therefore needing no more comment
    c) some other reason?

    You (and other pastors who comment at this blog) are more prepared to exegete this more than I am, but I will give it my best effort. To correct my assertion in the article above, tithing is mentioned in the New Testament beyond Matthew 23:23 – specifically Luke 11:42 (paralled to Matthew 23:23); Luke 18:12; Hebrews 7:5-6,8-9. Tithing was mentioned then because it was (essentially) still a law “on the books”, so the references to it were in real-time. Since we know their origin and intention, there is no need for it today – as specifically referenced in Hebrew 7:12, the law was renedered moot. I also contend that Christ spoke of it in reference to a (then) present-day law, whereas the Apostles spoke of it (primarily) in past tense because of the Blood of Jesus and His ultimate (and final) sacrifice. I welcome further exploration on these points.

    but have considered putting a page on our website describing our more biblical financial and giving practices.

    YES! YES! YES! Transparency is key in ministry in every aspect. These days, people are reluctant to give to anything or anybody aside from their bill collectors and the local grocery store and gas station. People resent bondage – and a biblical explanation of giving from the heart vs. fulfilling your weekly “tax obligation to God” would go a long way. In fact, I thiink folks would be more willing to support the ministry (and one another) if they aren’t forced to do it under threat of eternal damnation and hellfire.

  24. 26 Pamela February 13, 2009 at 11:44 am

    Thank God for this discussion. A lot of what is being shared from the word is what I have heard many times from a minister at the church I attend in Tulsa, OK. His name is Gary Carpenter. From time to time I send him links to this blog just as an encouragement because at times he has felt he was all alone in coming against this financial madness. I did send him the one about Landers and tithing. He has been busy BUT I’m sure he has probably read it.

    He was one that was suckered into this madness when he first got saved in 1980. He was keeping a ledger of giving to determine how much God owed him. After he started attending the church I am at the Lord dealt with him about it. Interestingly enough during that timeframe my pastor Dave Roberson was one of the ministers that was sucking the sheep dry with the prosperity gospel nonsense. HOWEVER the man had a real life of prayer. After a period of time the Lord dealt with him about it and he stopped teaching it. By the time I got to The Family Prayer Center in 2004 tithe became a joke when it appeared a guest minister was getting a nice offering. It is a relief to attend somewhere where the offertory deals with (1) what appeals to avoid in giving, (2) God blesses us financially just because He loves us because the price has already been paid, (3) tithing is under the law, that we are free from in Christ, etc.

    I do not remember being scared if I did not tithe because I never really heard the tithe curse in detail. I heard that we should but never really heard the curse until recent years. Amazing I know. When I lost my job a few years back I did not work for years. When I started working it was not enough to pay my bills and tithe. At least I had enough sense to know that I paid my bills since I have made a commitment to do so. I said to the Lord that I could not tithe cheerfully (2 Cor 9:8) and because of this I will not do it ‘until I can afford to do so’. When I felt no conviction from the Holy Spirit after that I thought that I may have tithed for the last time. It was a week later that I was sent the link to Gary Carpenter’s web page. A few months later I started attending the church I am presently at.

  25. 27 Tony Isaac February 13, 2009 at 11:46 am

    Another question: I don’t do this yet, but have considered putting a page on our website describing our more biblical financial and giving practices. What do you think of such an idea?

    If I may say, doing the above would just be as bad a promoting the tithe doctrine itself. That would be trying to condition people to give in a certain manner instead of allowing them make up thier own minds on what they want to give and how they want to give it. And giving is really of no consequence because God is more interested in your relationship with Him than anything else.

    I never felt comfortable saying things about preachers and I still don’t (I think I am still suffering from the effects of being institutionalised by the WoF doctrines for so long) but I have to say, if that letter is genuine, that preacher is a false preacher. He is defintely preaching another Jesus and another gospel. I advise people in that assembly to take to their heels, it is not a healthy place to be I must say.

    God bless you al.

  26. 28 Ken February 13, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    IST,
    Outstanding post. I can certainly relate to those who have shared about being made to feel guilty about tithing. In fact I was told that if I had to choose between paying my bills and tithing, that it was okay to “rob Peter to pay Paul”. I never could reconcile that statement with being a good steward. How can you justify not paying your bills to the bill collector because you gave it to your church? Secondly, what kind of witness is that? The abuse being heaped upon God’s people by these “clouds without water” is an abomination. I fear that it will only get worse because these vipers will use the current economic situation for their benefit. They are merchants of fear, constantly telling people that if they don’t give to them then they are living under a curse. I encourage you to keep doing what God has called you to do by sounding the alarm. Your sight and several others just like it (Pulpit Pimps, GCM,IC,etc.) have been a great help to me.

    SOLA SCRIPTURA!!!!

  27. 29 DoubleGrace February 13, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    I also remember every church that I have been in that teaches tithing, states in their “what we believe” or “statement of faith” or whatever they call it: That anyone who wants to be right with God and/or go that church should agree with, support and help the PASTOR with HIS VISION. That always bothered me. Like everyone in the church are just drones with no call on their own lives other than to see this “pastor” fulfill his call. (Which probably is not a calling at all, but as said in other comments, help him pay his bills, be his mealticket etc.)

  28. 30 speaking truth February 13, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    Tony, you said:

    If I may say, doing the above would just be as bad a promoting the tithe doctrine itself. That would be trying to condition people to give in a certain manner instead of allowing them make up thier own minds on what they want to give and how they want to give it.

    I would have to respectfully disagree with you, brother. First (and he can further address this on his own – he doesn’t need me), I certainly don’t believe Pastor Jim’s intention is to discourage folks from making up their own minds. I pressume that by addressing the matter biblically from the pulpit, his congregation will AVOID the widespread heresy that the rest of the Body of Christ is subject to today. I wish more pastors read the Word and publicly declared it without their selfish philosophies included, then things might be different. As the pastor, Pastor Jim should condition people to give – by the standard created in God’s Word under the New Covenenant and not out of ritual or compulsion.

    I certainly agree with your comment overall, I just don’t think it’s wrong to clearly state the truth “up front”.

    Pamela – I continue to be amazed whenver you recount how your pastor used to participate in such foolishness but now he publicly condemns it. He is a living example of what can happen when you yield to the Holy Spirit and let conviction perpetuate repentance. More of us should do the same on a regular basis.

    DoubleGrace – don’t even get me started on the “submitting to the vision” crap that’s sold week after week. Take a look at Landers’ “givers confession” (and take a look at Independent Conservatives excellent article breaking down these givers chants in detail). These wolves literally hypnotize you into pledging allegiance (and your money) to them week after week!

  29. 31 Pamela February 13, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    To see two ministers deal with this from both vantage points, the gullible money loving person (Gary) and the minister becoming prosperous at their expense (Pastor Dave) is amazing to me as well. I had not attended church services for over a year at the time I got the link to Gary’s web site. He also had a page where he would teach at The Prayer Center on different topics. During those days he taught about how God really prospers believers and that we should only give what the Holy Spirit prompts us to or what we purpose in our heart. After listening to a few services I decided to go there just to see how they took up the offering. When I saw how they did it I said to myself ‘these minister are really dead to the love of money’. I never thought I would see that in my life. Pastor Dave ran with a lot of the WOF people during the days of his madness. I think you can guess that they have nothing to do with him nowadays. Gary is really hated because a part of his calling is to deal with this part of false doctrine.

    The way the Lord dealt with Pastor Dave was from a broader issue of putting people under the law and being a true minister of integrity. He just came to a point where he saw that he was taking advantage of the people instead of really ministering to them. With Gary the issue was purely the love of money that he had before salvation and carried over into his walk with Christ.

    I also agree the support the vision extortion is pure garbage. Along with that is the line ‘if you support another man’s vision God will bless yours’, the derivative of the sowing and reaping nonsense (aka sow a seed to meet your need).

  30. 32 Tony Isaac February 14, 2009 at 3:15 am

    Hi Speaking truth,

    I think maybe I was a bit misunderstood. My point is if we begin to lay down guidelines of how people should give, we run the risk of walking into another legalistic strait Jacket.

    The emphasis really should be on our relationship with God. Paul says in the book of 2 cor 8

    3 For I can testify that they gave not only what they could afford, but far more. And they did it of their own free will. 4 They begged us again and again for the privilege of sharing in the gift for the believers in Jerusalem. 5 They even did more than we had hoped, for their first action was to give themselves to the Lord and to us, just as God wanted them to do.

    The brethren gave themselves first to God and any giving was born out of that relationship. I hope i make sense

    • 33 speaking truth February 14, 2009 at 7:30 am

      Tony,

      I completely understand your point, and I agree with you – Christians must understand that God wants their heart first and foremost for His service. I also believe that money is needed to support the furtherance of the Gospel and those in need, and that Christians should be taught the fundamentals of giving so that give from the proper perspective.

      Again, we are in alignment, brother.

  31. 34 ucanwalkonwater February 14, 2009 at 9:10 am

    Thanks for this post.

    If the membership doesn’t realize their beloved pastor doesn’t care about thsm, this letter should that final straw.

    Ok, so you’re no longer a member of the church . . . LEAVE!

    And during that transition period, try reading the Bible.

  32. 35 DoubleGrace February 14, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    Another thing I have observed: I haven’t yet come across a preacher, though there may be some, who teaches the WOF/prosperity message that was actually raised in an affluent middle to upper income home. The ones whose teachings I used to follow the most: Jesse Duplantis, Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, Creflo Dollar(though not certain of his background), Kenneth Hagin, three of my former pastors: Bobby Conner, Ryan LeStrange(Impact International Church), William Luffman(Faith Outreach Church)….all came from poor to very poor upbringings. They all struggled to make ends meet, even as adults. As one comment above said about another minister: they brought their love of money with them into their “salvation experience”. Maybe they really did “get saved” but from I can see, most of them decided that “pastoring” was a great, tax-free way to con people out of money and have a “respectable” reputation in the community.

  33. 36 DoubleGrace February 14, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    Another thing I forgot to mention: Pastor William Luffman, Faith Outreach Church, Clarksville,TN also has a bodyguard. Don’t know why. He’s WOF. His mentors are Copeland,Jerry Seville,Leroy Thompson, Jesse Duplantis.

    He must have ticked somebody off, or he wouldn’t be worried enough to have a paid bodyguard, who “eagle eyes” everyone, even during the service and stands by the pastor when people come up for prayer. I think it’s creepy and hypocritical.

  34. 37 speaking truth February 14, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    Very interesting observation DoubleGrace. I can’t speak for every wolf stalking the pulpit these days, but my two former pimps used to always brag about their humble upbringings and how God has shown favor on them now. Eddie Long was raised in a less-than-middle class home by a verbally abusive father (himself a minister with multiple churches) who made him buy his own belongings (Pimp Eddie has said that countless times publicly). Eddie doesn’t just make his money from shearing sheep – he actually has business ventures, which makes his sheep shearing even more dispicable because he doesn’t have to fleece in order to eat.

    Andre Landers proudly talks about how it took him 7 years to get out of college and he was fired from 5 jobs and have to move his wife and children into his parents basement (and his wife threatended to leave him becasue he subjected them all to poverty). Of course, he proudly crows “look at me now” to show that he’s “made it”.

    There is something to be said about the need to “show off” from the pulpit today.

    And regarding bodyguards, see Pastor John Coleman’s video “Greedy Fake Preachers” in my comment above. These pimps don’t even preach the Gospel (which Paul said was an offense to men), they preach another gospel altogether, so the bodyguards are just there for window dressing. I did a post about the bodyguard phenomenon some time ago as well.

  35. 38 DoubleGrace February 14, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    Bobby Conner, Ryan LeStrange, William Luffman all talked about their abusive childhoods and then “crow” about how God gave them favor and showed them how to get out of poverty (Want to guess that tithing is always proclaimed as one of the ways as well as their WOF mantras?) However, none of them made any real money until they became ‘pastors’. Hhmmm…. They also brag of how they started in some crappy little building, but “God favored them” and now look at the plush surroundings now. Remember that old song from the broadway musical Sweet Charity?:

    Tonight at eight you shoulda seen
    A chauffeur pull up in a rented limousine!
    My neighbors burned! They like to die!
    When I tell them who is gettin’ in and goin’ out is I!
    If they could see me now,
    That little gang of mine,
    I’m eating fancy chow
    And drinking fancy wine.
    I’d like those stumble bums to see for a fact
    The kind of top drawer, first rate chums I attract.
    All I can say is “Wow-ee!
    Looka where I am.
    Tonight I landed, pow!
    Right in a pot of jam.
    What a set up! Holy cow!
    They’d never believe it,
    If my friends could see me now!
    If they could see me now,
    My little dusty group,
    Traipsin’ ’round this million dollar chicken coop.
    I’d hear those thrift shop cats say:
    “Brother, get her!
    Draped on a bed spread made from three kinds of fur.”
    All I can say is, “Wow!
    Wait till the riff an’ raff
    See just exactly how
    He sign this autograph.”
    What a build up! Holy cow!
    They’d never believe it,
    If my friends could see me now!
    If they could see me now
    Alone with Mister V.,
    Who’s waiting on me like he was a maître d’
    I’d hear my buddies saying:
    “Crazy, what gives?
    Tonight she’s living like
    The other half lives!”
    To think the highest brow,
    Which I must say is he,
    Should pick the lowest brow,
    Which there’s no doubt is me!
    What a step up! Holy cow!
    They’d never believe it,
    If my friends could see me now!
    What a step up! Holy cow!
    They’d never believe it…
    They’d never believe it,
    If my friends could see me now!

    That’s what I think of when I see these guys and gals and the smirk on their faces when they talk about their wealth while the congregants still struggle.

    There seems to be a common thread there, with the childhood abuse. Funny how they all learned the religious con game.

    I’m going to have a look at that bodyguard phenomenon video…

  36. 39 Pastor Jim February 14, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    ST
    Thanks for the input on the financial teaching page. I’m still considering expanding that content. I hope the Lord is pleased with how we handle the money He generously sends to our church for the expansion of His kingdom.

    Back to my first question about the perspective on the OT vs. NT – not just in respect to tithing. It was a slow dawning for me in reforming my practice of biblical doctrine to realize that the OT was Jesus’ Bible. I was taught to look down on the OT or put it into a ‘merely exemplary’ category. I did not know the role or place of the Law of God in the life of a believer. (There is one! and it is a good role!) I’ll let you percolate on some good reformers teaching and see what you cook up.

    In regards to tithing though, here are a couple of tidbits that encourage me to give generously. Hopefully all of us will be healed from the wounds of false teachers and be free to give more than 10%!

    The tithe hasn’t been made moot by Jesus – it has been increased by Jesus! He now asks for 100% of our lives – finances included!
    He can ask for 100% because He gave 100%. It is more a question of living in and through His generosity than legalism and duty.

    There is no Christianity without generosity.

    Last thing. One of the best things we’ve done at our church is not only preach what we should do (give a tithe and more) but actually TRAIN people in the principles of biblical finances. God’s word is very specific about how to handle your money – and it isn’t ‘just giving him what we feel we can handle’ or ‘paying a preacher’

    Lee Jenkins ‘What to Do When Your Money is Funny’ and Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University have some great books and resources to train God’s people HOW to follow God’s ways! Getting out of debt was huge!

    Not enough time to cover everything.
    Graced

  37. 40 Melvin February 14, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    Great articles, great comments. You’re right: habits are hard to break. If you’ve been told for years by leadership where ever you go that you are stealing from God if you don’t tithe, it’s going to be tough to stop.

    But all that means is an opportunity to operate truly on the basis of faith, following the leading of God in your heart rather than fear or greed in your mind.

  38. 41 Anointed February 14, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    Geez
    my eyes got bigger and so did my mouth as I read this post, I know in my heart of heart that God is not pleased. This foolishness must not and can not continue in the body of Christ. Thanks for sounding the alarm and I encourage you to continue doing so!

  39. 42 Neil February 14, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    Excellent points. Hopefully this economic downturn will weed out some of the prosperity pimp false teachers. Blessings to you for your candid and accurate assessments!

  40. 43 speaking truth February 14, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    The tithe hasn’t been made moot by Jesus – it has been increased by Jesus! He now asks for 100% of our lives – finances included!
    He can ask for 100% because He gave 100%. It is more a question of living in and through His generosity than legalism and duty.

    I respectfully disagree, Pastor Jim. As you know the word “tithe” means “tenth”. The bible doesn’t affirm a specific amount for giving under the New Covenanat, so did Jesus affirm “the tenth” or did He affirm abundant giving in general? I contend that Jesus nullified the rule of the tenth. I’ve been wrong before (many times) so I’m certainly open for correction if I have eisegeted in any way.

    The two pimps that I served under (Eddie Long and Andre Landers) continually said that “if you do not give a tenth, then you are not a tither. You can give an offering, but you are not a tither. God didn’t say He’d rebuke the devourer for an offering-giver – He rebukes the devourer for tithers only”. Both of these pimps “declared” (i.e. demanded of God, Word of Faith style) that their congregations would be “100% tithers” – and they encouraged the congregation to harass one another to ensure that everyone was in compliance, or the Lord would send judgement and calamity to the church.

    Those extortion tactics alone reaffirmed the “law of tithing” instead of the “grace in generous giving”. What if I only had 4.3% to give to the Lord? Then I was cursed with a curse. What if I wanted to give 53%? What if I wanted to bypass the pimps all together and give directly to those in need? Then I would be labeled a “non-tither” and (by inference and public indictment) a person who has brought “sin into the camp”.

    We should give liberally and without expectation of a return – as the Lord leads us. The moment we attempt to insert a minimum, or “cover charge”, then it becomes a game of “I gave my tithe but you only gave a measly offering, so God loves me more”. If we keep pushing the “tenth”, then we reaffirm the fact that is was a law that does not apply to us.

  41. 44 escapeetoo February 14, 2009 at 11:24 pm

    ST,

    The following is an excellent exegesis by J. Vernon McGee, notably one of the greatest Bible Teachers of the 20th Century. Note Dr McGee’s explanation as it pertains to giving: Grace,Principle of giving and motive.

    Funny thing ST, prior to getting tangled up with the WoF and Club Hustle & Flow I was raised up with this “sound” theological doctrine from such people as Dr McGee. My grandmother listened and still listens to McGee to this day! My grandmother is a huge giver! But she has alaways said that tithe is under the law and not under grace. She was oh so right!

  42. 45 Fedup February 15, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    Its been quite some time since I have commented on this blogsite. I just had to take a moment to thank all of you for making God’s Truth a priority. You guys keep me encouraged. ST keep up the good work.

    [ST: We've missed you around here FedUp, and I've been praying that you left Landers' club back in the Spring/Summer when you first came by. I pray that you truly find a pastor who loves the Word more than the mammon]

  43. 46 Pastor Jim February 16, 2009 at 9:12 am

    ST
    Wow, some of the half truths (therefore lies) you have been hammered with! Amazing! God have mercy!
    I appreciate the disagreement. It’s not often we’ve found something to disagree on. I think the issues of the heart and theological thinking are much bigger than clarifying the one point about the tenth.

    The issue of tithing and giving has been so abused (in WOF and other churches too) that it would be hard to have a discussion online about it or outside of a healthy shepherding relationship. I’ll not argue the point and we don’t need to hammer on it online. I’m sure that the LORD Our God is generous and He will lead you to truth. (that is not a backhanded way of saying you are wrong and I’m right, its putting the issue into God’s hands.)

    About giving: I think the Bible DOES teach cheerful giving – what one has decided beforehand and over and above offerings. I would pray that He blesses you with generosity and freedom to give both a percentage and over and above offerings for special projects. If all God’s people would trust Him, get out of false churches, get out of debt (and stay out – as Proverbs 6:1-19 teaches), work hard, and not fall prey to Vanity Fair, then it would be amazing the joy and freedom and accomplishments we would do to His glory.

    Since you ARE a Bible teacher (here on this blog at least) I will keep challenging you to consider your view of the Old Covenant for further learning. What is the role of the Law in the life of a believer (not just in an abused topic like tithing)? How does it fit with the gospel? Did Jesus nullify the Old Covenant teaching on justice, righteousness, wealth, worship, idolatry, origins, etc? How so? What do we keep? What is moot?

    The answer to these questions is one that took me more than a decade to learn. The wrong assumptions were so ingrained.

    But the LORD is patient and wise. He will lead us to truth. Many blessings on the journey with Him! That offer for lunch in the city still stands.

  44. 47 speaking truth February 16, 2009 at 9:59 pm

    Thanks for the dialogue Pastor Jim. We will meet for lunch, by the way :-)

    As I mentioned, I am not a “know it all” and I yield to revelation from God through His Word and sound teachers – and I respect your perspective of scripture. I think it earnestly boils down to semantics. We should give to the church and for the mission of the church – liberally and often – but we should not do so under compulsion or to meet a “minimum tax”. The very nature of the word “tithe” means that I am required to give a tenth, and I fundamentally disagree with that. Call it grace giving, call it a freewill offering, but when you call it a tithe you’re asking for 1/10. It’s just as simple as that in my feeble mind.

    And I certainly did not mean to insinuate or imply that Jesus rendered the Old Covenant moot, rather He affirmed the fulfilment of the prophecies of old (Matthew 5). Further, there is a clear Christological theme to the Old Testament (which speaks of Christ concealed), thereby aligning perfectly with the New Testament, where Christ is revealed for all to see clearly. I sincerely believe that you can’t embrace the New Testament by rejecting the Old (and vice versa).

    That said, I still contend that the tithe was rendered moot, but pure giving (of ourselves) became even more stringent and heartfelt. I don’t desire to simply “have the last word” on this, I truly believe in my heart that the tithe is not applicable to us as Christians today.

  45. 48 escapeetoo February 16, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    Comon’ folks when will we admit that A) We can’t keep the Law and B) Christ came to fulfill the Law. We are no longer therefore bound to the Law. Christ paid the penalty once and for all!

    Lander’s letter is a perfect example to show that “we” humans can’t keep the Law of the Tithe. Yet and still he (Landers) seeks to punish those who can’t keep the Law. If Christ is our payment for not being able to keep the Law, then who in the heck is Landers for imposing a punishment for not keeping the Law of the Tithe?

  46. 49 speaking truth February 17, 2009 at 9:11 am

    Mike Pharr,

    Could you forward an alternate email address to my “contact me” page? Your email box is full and won’t accept additional messages…

  47. 50 Pastor Jim February 17, 2009 at 10:01 am

    Escapeetoo – Yes! How true!
    Our fear of the law ought to drive us to Christ!

  48. 51 Independent Conservative February 25, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    Tithing was a requirement of Old Testament law where the Israelites were told to give 10% of their earnings and crops to the Tabernacle.

    ST, although you already know I always like to point out for the sake of clarity, that the tithe was only crops and livestock. It was never about money. The “earnings” had to be earned in the form of an increase in crops and/or livestock to the point there was INCREASE, not simply enough to cover debt. It was never about money and there was NO TITHE of money earnings. The only people paying a money tithe were those too far away to carry the crops and so they converted it to money for ease of travel. But nobody earning money for labor had to tithe a money tithe off their money earnings. There is no such thing as a tithe on money earnings anywhere in the entire Bible. And it was not because of the people of that time being in an agrarian society, even the Old Testament is full of LOTS of talk about money, there was money and lots of people were earning some of it, but the tithe was not at all about money. The meat spoken of in Malachi 3 was REAL MEAT.

    I only mention this for those who are still trapped in improper teaching about tithing. There is no such thing as a “church tithe” and Protestants didn’t try and promote “tithe” till the late 1800s when some of them simply wanted more money, but most true saints throughout church history have never fallen for the “church tithe” scam.

    Today’s ecumenical mixing of true Christianity with false Roman Catholic dogma is leaving many misled!

    • 52 speaking truth February 25, 2009 at 7:20 pm

      Thanks for the clarification IC. You’re right, I didn’t state clearly enough that tithing had nothing to do with money, further illustrating that these pimps would look at you cross-eyed if you brought them vegetables and grain on Sunday morning.

  49. 53 Truthseeker March 22, 2009 at 10:19 am

    This is hands down the best article(book) I’ve ever read on tithing…hope somebody gets set free!!

    file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/James%20Tucker/My%20Documents/TTTB.pdf

  50. 55 Faithful tither May 3, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    I started tithing to my bishop 6 months ago. Ever since then, my health has improved, and believe it or not, my finances have improved as well. I have alot more money left over at the end of the month now that I am tithing than when I wasn’t. It’s true. Try it. The reason for this is that I am now being careful with my optional purchases since I know that 10 percent is reserved for the bishop.

    • 56 speaking truth May 4, 2009 at 8:56 pm

      Faithful tither,

      I have provided mounds of biblical evidence – directly from scripture – to debunk the necessity of the tithe. I have also provided links to excellently written exegesis to give even more painstaking detail to the subject, yet your defense of the tithe rests in the “favor” that you received from “tithing”. Your comment underscores the reason for my post – and why most people tithe in the first place: in order to receive something in return. You even ended your comment by emphasizing that you have reserved your tithe for your “bishop” – again, satisfying the desires of the flesh to seek favor with God and men through a tax.

      I pray that you really research this important subject instead of just repeating popular refrain. Either way, the Lord’s will be done.

      Thanks for your comment.

  51. 57 Clay June 9, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    God loves a cheerful giver

    “So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver” (2 Corinthians 9:7). The Revised Standard Version has “not reluctantly or under compulsion.” This is really all that needed to be said. This covers it everything. And it’s in the word, and not in my opinion. When you attack, as you say the “Person of Hampton”, you’re as bad, if not worse than he. You are taking things out of context as well. Giving back to God goes back as for as Cain and Able.(first fruits). It simply acknowledges God for his blessings. Thats what a offering is. It’s given cheerfully. New and Old testament. The tithe is not just 10%. It’s the first offering of the harvest, though the word tithe is translated tenth. There is no teaching in the NT against tithing for the converts, or new believers. The tithe still sustains the Church, and the Pastor. The offerings sustain the outreach, and the inreach ministries, when all things are in order. Next verse: Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.” (1 Cor 16:1-2)If one man, or many men are wrong, condemn the work of the man. Not the man, nor the Bible. “(Brotheren, if ANY man be overtaken in a fault, ye who are spiritual, RESTORE such a one)”. The key – When we give to God, whether it be tithe, or offering, it must come from a willing and cheerful heart! Not out of guilt, obligation, or by compulsion of others.

    • 58 speaking truth June 9, 2009 at 5:23 pm

      You’re right, Clay – I’m much worse than the Pimp of Hampton. I always threaten people in order to get them to give money “to God”. I always twist God’s Word out of context in order to achieve my personal objectives, and I always do everything in my power to equate God’s favor and blessings DIRECTLY with the amount of money He is giving by people.

      Do me a favor – disregard every word I typed in the article (exhaustively searching scripture for truth, Sola Scriptura and all that) and go with your hypotheses.
      :roll:

  52. 59 FF August 18, 2009 at 9:32 am

    FF
    Is it just me? When I get distracted and stop tithing my life seems to be unbalance, but when I get back on track, start doing it my life always seems better.
    If you guys think you know what will work or what is working on behalf of the people of this world, what don’t you guys give the world the clue of how to get out of this miss that they are in?
    Continue to do what work for you, and let us continue to do what works for us. At the end of the day it is our money. If you are so concern and feeling so bad for us, would you give us a refund of what we have gave to church? If you can’t do that, just stop that foolishness.

    • 60 speaking truth August 18, 2009 at 9:38 am

      FF,

      There are bibles available that present the Word of God in TRUTH and CONTEXT, yet you and others continue to delude yourselves into thinking “my life is better when I pay a tax to a man (or woman) who tells me that God told them that I should pay them“. If paying your church tax “worked” for you, then you would NEVER EVER EVER experience ANY LACK because you are “sowing into good ground”. If that is not your testimony, then you are paying into a lie that God NEVER told.

      The real foolishness is your lack of knowledge – and stubborn refusal to search God’s Word for His TRUE intent for giving. My only response to you is prayer.

  53. 61 Pamela August 18, 2009 at 9:39 am

    In many places in the Bible it says that we receive from Him by believing His word, not by anything we do. Tithing does not guarantee anything. There is nothing wrong with giving 10% or more. The problem Biblically is saying that tithing is what is keeping you prosperous or anything else for that matter. The Bible is our guide, not what appears to work. Dependence on our own works is always frowned on in the New Testament. One work that is definitely acceptable according to Christ is to believe on whom the Father has sent.

    • 62 speaking truth August 18, 2009 at 9:44 am

      Pamela,

      I respectfully ask that you save your breath (or in this case, your typing). People will do what they want to do, and ignorance apparently is bliss. Tithe defenders will read the 4,000 word essay above – replete with links directly to the Word of God AND no less than 8 external resources who also DIRECTLY LINK TO THE WORD OF GOD. Further, they’ll even IGNORE THE BIBLE’S THAT THEY OWN to defend a tax that has been hung around their necks by deceptively vile wolves.

      I have no more patience for ingorant people – who have been spoonfed the Word and still desire to adhere to darkness.

      The Lord’s will be done concerning them.

  54. 63 frances September 29, 2009 at 2:25 am

    should the church teach tithing is a great book to read by russell e. kelly

  55. 64 tithingstudy January 5, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    New Testament tithing is a monumental scam!
    Even Church history proves that the Early Christian Church did not Church.

  56. 65 Lafe January 21, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    For those interested in the concept that the tithe is not required for N.T. believers, feel free to go to the website known as http://www.apostasywatch.com and go to the side bar and seek out “articles” and scroll down to the article entitle: WHY ARE YOU TITHING..GUILT OR IGNORANCE written by yours truly.
    Also, at that same site (scroll further on down to “E Books”) is a great book on tithing by Matthew Narramore.
    It is a good read.
    Regrettably too many church folks simply do not take the time to
    read the Word of God. They will spend hours watching football games but when it comes to be hoodwinked by spiritual gibberish,
    they are vulnerable to fall for it because it sounds spiritual or the speaker is “dynamic” or forceful.

    Thanks


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