So, Eddie Doesn’t “Understand” Homosexuality?

It appears as though Eddie Long is doing what many (including his detractors) thought would NEVER happen…bend to the will of the homosexual lobby.

I must admit that I’m saddened by this apparent revelation. Sure, I have theological disagreements with Eddie Long because of his allegiance to the false prosperity gospel, his daft ability to twist scripture like an old pro, and his spawning of clones across the country.

Despite all of this, Eddie still stood firmly on the Word of God in reiterating that homosexuality is a sin that God will not ignore. He even led a march through downtown Atlanta in 2004 in support of heterosexual marriage.

Now, it appears that Eddie is bowing to pressure from the pro-gay lobby, has met the group Soulforce (a “gay christian” organization), and told Soulforce that there are “things about homosexuality that he needs to learn”.

So what is it that Eddie doesn’t “understand” about homosexuality? He’s been preaching against it all of his pastoral life, and he’s questioning scripture’s position regarding the subject now?

Our brother Pastor Foster over at Gay Christian Movement Watch first alerted us of this impending attempt of Soulforce to “dialogue” with Eddie last week (i.e. get him to see their point of view) (click here, here, here, and here for more details), and our brother Independent Conservative posted about it earlier this week as well.

You can see pictures of Soulforce’s visit with Eddie and his staff here, and you can read the article in a pro-gay newspaper that details the visit. Here’s an interesting quote from the article:

The meeting ended with Soulforce members offering to lead workshops at New Birth on human sexuality. Renee said the church is considering its options.

Homosexuality is a sin, and no “workshop on human sexuality” will change that fact. The Soulforce coalition seemed pretty happy to be at Club New Birth, but the CNB staff seemed elated for the opportunity to meet with them.

Unless this meeting was called to preach salvation and repentance from homosexual sin, it should’ve never been held (1 Corinthians 5). These Soulforce members have heard the truth, REJECTED IT, and “tweaked it” to fit THEIR AGENDA.

Let me be CRYSTAL CLEAR – God loves us even in our mess – and in turn, our love for Him and His truth means we must leave our mess behind. We are filthy rags, deserving eternal damnation apart from the redeeming Blood of Jesus Christ and the turning away from our flesh. This is an uncompromisable point. We can’t honestly serve a sinless Savior while holding onto the things that He hates!

I am not a “gay basher”, a homophobe, a “hater” or any other pejorative that will probably be hurled my way. I’m not perfect, nor will I try to reason the varying degrees of “sin”. I understand that many have been hurt through sexual molestation, and confused regarding same-sex attraction, etc. Homosexuality is a sin – and like every other unrepentant sin, it’s consequence is eternal separation from the Father. I stand on the Word of God, specifically:

Is there deliverance from homosexuality? ABSOLUTELY – 1 Corinthians 6:11 and 2 Corinthians 5:17 specifically speaks of deliverance over ANY SIN through salvation and faith in Jesus Christ.

Further, EVERY CHRISTIAN will struggle against sin – including sins of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21). What separates us from the world, however, is that we always repent and turn back to God. You can’t be “gay” and call yourself a true Christian if you continue in homosexual sin – remember, 1 Corinthians 6:11 Paul said “you were (fill in the blank)”…meaning before sanctification through the Blood of Jesus.

You’re either “ex-gay” or an “ex-Christian”.

The truth hurts, and it could be considered “offensive” to anyone that it speaks against – BUT THAT DOES NOT NEGATE IT’S MERIT.

The bottom line is this – Eddie Long has just (apparently) lost the firm footing he had on scripture as it relates to this particular sin.

Should he have attempted to evangelize the Gospel truth to sinners? YES! Should he have entertained an audience of unrepentant sinners (and their partners) in an attempt to assuage scripture for their comfort? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

To all of the Eddie Long sympathizers that ignore EVERYTHING else he’s ever done, can you overlook this too?

In accordance to 2 John 1:10-11, I WILL NOTentertain comments from Soulforce sympathizers, anyone who wishes to argue about being “born gay”, or anyone attempting to defend this meeting.

It is what it is – if you disagree, then visit a blog that supports your assertions – I will stand on the uncompromised, immutable, irrefutable Word of God.

About these ads

61 Responses to “So, Eddie Doesn’t “Understand” Homosexuality?”


  1. 1 escapeetoo June 6, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    You are starting the weekend with a BANG.

    This is an excellent example of Oneness Pentecostalism gone bad.

    The Oneness Theology says one thing (Holiness, Monotheism, Salvation etc)yet the theologies most prominent leaders do another. Sadly the flock that these pastors tend to follow aimlessly behind without out question. You know you can’t question the “Man’d of Gawd”

    • 2 Ralphael April 5, 2009 at 9:23 am

      Hey did’nt Rick Warren meet with homosexuals at his church concerning the same thing?

      • 3 speaking truth April 6, 2009 at 2:01 pm

        Rick Warren actually shunned the Soulforce visit, Ralphael. Like you, I heard that he was “welcoming” the group for a sit down, and I was ready to write about his actions as well, but Rick released a statement denying that he agreed to meet the group. While it would certainly be no surprise if he played both sides of the fence, at this point Rick’s statement is all we have.

  2. 4 C. A. Blackmon June 6, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    Bro., when people fail to stand for the rightly divided, rightly applied Word of God they will fall for anything. Eddie Long has failed to stand for the Word for years. It appears that he’s now in the middle of an ungodly free fall. Instead of “holding fast the faithful word” as Paul exhorts in Titus 1:9, he has chosen to appease sodomites who desire to continue in their sin and have the cloak of his implicit if not explicit approval. This is a stench in the nostrils of our holy God. Eddie Long will have a lot of explaining to do when he comes before that same God.

  3. 5 speaking truth June 6, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    After this episode, escapeetoo, I don’t know how Eddie’s followers can’t question his actions.

    I pray that he will address this foolishness from the pulpit this weekend (and I’ll consult my sources in CNB to see if he did) – he can’t just put up a brick wall (like his Director of Marketing and outside PR firm have been and are doing).

    Oh, and please don’t attract the Oneness crowd over here – I’m tired of arguing…

    Also, amen C.A.. Maybe I tried to rationalize Eddie’s free fall in my own mind and limit it simply to his money greed and thirst for attention. I was always able to at least know where he stood on this important issue – especially in this age of the inclusion heresy and the apostates that remove the burden of the Cross of Christ.

    This one just hit me in the face.

    All we can do is pray that Eddie’s gonna square this up with God in this life vs. being accountable for it in the next…

  4. 6 Lady D June 6, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    Amen brother,amen.
    Keep pressing the battle to the gate!

  5. 7 ken June 6, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    Eddie Long has become the poster boy for the “slippery slope” syndrome. When you twist the scripture in one area it becomes much easier to twist it again and again. He would do well to remember the words of Paul to his protege Timothy. “Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.” (1 Timothy 4:16 ) The great falling away isn’t coming, IT’S HERE! We are not fearful for we know that the true Church will stand. But we must continue to warn,to admonish and most of all to pray. And I want to contiune to encourage you my brother, because this has to be a difficult thing. Having been at New Birth,and now having to lovingly speak the “inconvenient” truth about what is really going on there cannot be easy. God Bless!

  6. 8 speaking truth June 6, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    Excellent analysis ken (as usual). We are witnessing the apostasy that Jesus and Paul forwarned of.

    I can’t stress how difficult it was to write this post. I first heard of the impending encounter when Pastor Foster contacted me (offline) last week. He tried to appeal to reasonable parties w/in CNB and they kept toying with him – like this was a big game. I mean, William Turner (CNB’s IN HOUSE PR guy – and the guy with the broad smile, bald head, goatee and brown suite in one of Soulforce’s photo’s) was so immaturely coy with Pastor Foster. He played the “semantics” game instead of standing as a Christian.

    Even still, I sat on my hands while others exposed it – I guess because I didn’t want to even believe it (until I saw the photo’s myself). At this point, who hasn’t seen Eddie condemn homosexuality in the past? And to turn around and even give the appearance of appeasement?

    Contrary to the opinion of those who send me hate mail and death threats – I do have a heart, and I’m earnest about the things of God.

    I just can’t help but see this as extremely shameful.

  7. 9 Brother K June 6, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    One thing I’m curious of: will Bishop Long (or his “sons”) respond to our current hue and cry over this from the Pulpit? Or will they hold that “silence is golden?” The reason I ask, is that I specifically remember his “son” in Morrow rushing to Long’s defense when the AJC broke the story of Long’s “charity” fund a couple of years ago. I was totally unaware of the report that morning, learning of it first from the SERMON he preached. Will there be an answer for this? And even more important: will we have access to it? I, for one, cannot wait to see how the wagons are circled this time…

  8. 10 gcmwatch June 6, 2008 at 8:00 pm

    IST, you have my gratitude as a brother in the Lord. As satan presses the church more and more to make concessions and give his attendant spirits authority in the church, we must choose sides. I ask WHO IS ON THE LORD’S SIDE? Not Long, not Foster, but THE LORD GOD. If he indeed is God, then we must uphold what he has spoken without favoritism.

    I find this whole thing spurious, but yet in it God is sifting and shifting out those who have been hiding their disloyalty to Him. When satan knocks on your door and you open, but refuse the Word of the Lord, then your father is the devil. Jesus said that.

    Thank you again. New Birth staff have shown themselves to be a group of shameful cowards. The “Taking Authority” mantra is nothing but a marketing scheme.

    I will be posting a letter from a (former?)New Birth member on my site tomorrow decrying this sordid affair. And if allowed the paltry response given.

    I concur fully with Ken…the great falling away has arrived.

  9. 11 Douglas K. Adu-Boahen June 6, 2008 at 11:20 pm

    As long as Eddie Long and Fast rakes in his paper, he doesn’t care about truth. “Touch my money, feel my wrath” is his slogan – not glory to God alone!

  10. 12 Chris June 7, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    I suppose that Soulforce knows more about homosexuality than the Lord does. God said homosexuality is wrong, but he has never been a homosexual so he would not know, the members of Soulforce are homosexuals and they are good and kind people, so they should know. God just does not know from experience and as a result His words are not to be taken seriously. Poor, poor, Soulfource, so misunderstood, they are true believers, but are misunderstood by God. So they rallied Bro Eddie Long, who is more open minded than God and who is willing to ignore Pauls warning in 1 Corinthians 5:9-13, Paul did not have a clue about homosexuality either. So Eddie, because there are “things about homosexuality that he needs to learn” fraternised with them, inspite of 1 Cor 5:11. If I was a member of NB, thank God I’m not, and was struggling with homosexuality or any other sexual perversion, to God be the glory I’m not, the message to me would be that it is ok, to be a gay christian, in spite of what the bible says. My understanding is that there are lots of undercover homosexuals in the church already, and to me, what Eddie Long did only endorsed this abomination. What out for the comimg outs in NB. SHAME ON EDDIE LONG and NEW BIRTH LEADERS. They have don major dis-service to their members.

  11. 13 Lionel Woods June 7, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    Very interesting. Lets pray that he will recant on this by the move of the Spirit or lets pray that those whom he closely associates with: Jakes, Evans, and others will stretch their arms in distance and he see the ways of his error. Lets not forget their are many young babes in his church and as the leadership goes so goes the flock. This could have a moumental effect if God does not intervene. BTW anyone watch Swingtown? I am deeply saddended that a non-cable televion channel would show this crap during prime time. We are seeing the beginning of the end folks. This scares me but assures me that God word is true when He says “men will be lovers of themselves”!

    Nice site by the way. Very good content!

  12. 14 Chris June 7, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    My point exactly, Lionel Woods, The people in the congregation who cannot or will not divide the scriptures for themselves are in big trouble. I have never heard of Swingtown.

  13. 15 speaking truth June 7, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    Thanks for stopping by Lionel – I’ve visited your site a few times, and even visited Southwest Christian Fellowship because of your reccomendations. Please come again.

    Oh, BTW – Jakes hosted Soulforce 2 weeks ago, so there goes his moral authority (you can see the pix at Soulforce’s website also)…

  14. 16 Fedup June 8, 2008 at 2:05 am

    Great post! The test for God’s people within Long’s congregation is will they continue to submit to the authority of Eddie Long, or will they seek God’s word and stand strong. Because he is making concessions many just may follow. When your mind and spirit are weak the truth may be up for interpretation and unfortunately many of us have chosen poorly for interpreters. Most individuals living the alternative lifestyle are fully aware of it inappropriateness. This is just another attempt to seek validation in order to facilitate acceptance. If homosexuals were truly convinced that their ways were in order, they would not work so hard in their attempts to reel us in. I pray that Long and all others reconsidering God’s stand on homosexuality not be tempted to embrace it in the smallest way.

  15. 17 speaking truth June 8, 2008 at 9:45 am

    Most (if not all) of CNB’s congregation didn’t even know this meeting was taking place, Fedup, so that tells me that Eddie and his staff KNEW that it would “hit the fan” (another article in the gay paper noted that a CNB congregant said she didn’t know of the meeting, that they should pray for the Soulforce members, but not endorse their unbiblical lifestyle).

    We also can’t ignore the revenue issues here – CNB (like most every other church in America) has a sizable homosexual population…they’re just “undercover”. The church has had a “don’task, don’t tell” policy since before I attended in the late 90’s. Eddie knows how much money the gay population is responsible for, so he doesn’t want to “slow the flow”.

    Remember, Fedup, if you’re still at New Birth South, then Eddie Long is your “spiritual grandaddy”, so Andre – your “daddy” – will adopt this same policy if forced because he needs the money a lot more than Eddie does.

    Don’t be surprised when Soulforce comes to Hampton…:roll:

  16. 18 Fedup June 9, 2008 at 1:10 am

    My bags are already packed, but thanks for the warning. (smile)

  17. 19 CiCi June 9, 2008 at 6:25 pm

    ST…..

    OK…at the risk of getting stoned here, I’m glad that this group is meeting with Christian churches and that the dialogue is being opened (although, believe me, I have no love for Bishop Long and the like). Just because i speak with you doesn’t mean I agree with you — seeking to understand your thoughts and your struggle doesn’t mean that I necessarily endorse your position. I will save my “condemnation” for the time when I hear that some Christian miniters have endorsed and approved if homosexuality as a lifestyle choice. This is a very complicated issue and a struggle that must ultimately be lined up with the Word of God just as the expression (or necessary lack of expression due to our marital circumstances) of heterosexuality.

    This group also met with Bishop Harry Jackson here in DC who is very strong in his position opposing the righteousness of homosexuality. And they have posted a video of his remarks on their site. Did you have a chance to listen to his comments. Any thoughts on them?

  18. 20 speaking truth June 9, 2008 at 7:15 pm

    You won’t get stoned here, CiCi. You’re comments are always insightful, so we’ll give you the benefit of the doubt…for now :-)

    This group is a lobby of unrepentant homosexuals who not only don’t seek repentance for their sins, but they seek to have “dialogue” with mega-churches with large (closeted) homosexual congregants so that the pastors can adopt their point of view.

    Soulforce members have been evangelized to and shown the error of their ways (and their theology) IN ACCORDANCE WITH SCRIPTURE, and they still REJECT sound doctrine. For that fact alone, Long, Jakes, Osteen, Jackson, and any other “target” of this group should refuse any meeting that doesn’t begin with the salvation message and end with a repentance of homosexuality (in total) and a return to holiness to God through Jesus Christ – period. Again, referring back to 1 Corinthians 5 – a letter that Paul wrote concerning sexual immorality that was happening in the church (the saved, if you will) AND tolerated by church folks (the saints, if you will).

    I agree – it can be considered a complicated issue…when you remove sound doctrine. With the bible, the issue is as clear as day. We are living in the last days, CiCi, and we can’t continue to play these politically correct games when lives LITERALLY hang in the balance. There will come a time when we ALL must account for the time God gave us here – and we would be negating our duty as disciples of Christ if we simply tried to dialog with sinners who love their sin (and their flesh) more than they love Christ.

    Oh, and I didn’t watch Bishop Jackson’s video – but apparently Soulforce wasn’t too happy with his assessment of their “cordial meeting” – again, illustrating the fact that he shouldn’t have met with them anyway. Their reaction to the Jackson meeting underscores that they wanted it to be a PR event that propelled their purpose – and they got mad when Jackson didn’t kiss butt like Jakes did.

    Like you CiCi, I believe that the Gospel message MUST be preached to every ear – if they reject the truth of the Word of God, then we must “shake em’ off” (Mark 6:11).

  19. 21 CiCi June 9, 2008 at 7:47 pm

    ST….

    Thank you so much for the “benefit of the doubt” as well as hearing me out.

    I must confess that I don’t know that much about this particular group. But, I do know some things about human sexuality and its development from a scientific perspective and it’s really a fascinating subject that I think that we all should learn something about. The intricate way in which hormones are released at certain times of our development and how they effect our sexual development and attractions is amazing to me, and the effects of that whole system mis-firing (for lack of a better word) can really be life-changing and devastating to those effected by it. I think that an understanding of that process and how it effects human development would be a benefit to all of us — especially those of us who profess Christianity.

    Now….having said all of that, it does not change the Word of God and what it states about the issue. However, I think that dialogue about this very serious issue is good and very necessary if we are to be effective in our witness and gaining of understanding. In this vein, I pose this question:

    What makes a person gay/homosexual? Is it feelings and tendencies or is it the acting upon those feelings?

    Is a person with gay feelings who commits to living a celibate life in order to please God a Christian?

    Is a single heterosexual who practices fornication “more” of a Christian than the gay person who does the same?

    Not trying to argue at all…just hoping to stimulate conversation and thought…..

    Thanks for the welcoming posture…..

    CiCi

  20. 22 speaking truth June 9, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    Hi CiCi,

    I’m not opposed to Christ-centered dialogue, especially as it relates to how our behavior affects our eternity. I am opposed to a conversation that provides comfort to anyone seeking to justify their sin – no matter what the sin is.

    I don’t know what technically makes a person attracted to someone of the same sex – and I don’t know the complexity of “celebate homosexuality”. My brother in Christ Pastor Darryl Foster is a former homosexual and he blogs at Gay Christian Movement Watch. He posted a few articles recently that specifically addressed similar topics: same-sex romantic love and homo-emotional relationships.

    In addition to his church, Pastor Foster also heads Witness Freedom Ministries, a ministry that biblically helps homosexuals walk away from their former lifestyle, so I’m sure he can dig even deeper.

    Finally, I don’t think any single heterosexual who fornicates is more of a Christian than a homosexual. As I referenced earlier, this is a black and white issue – as it relates to the Word of God. We’re all filthy rags apart from the redeeming Blood of Christ. Once you accept His sacrifice as the payment for your sin, you can’t go back to your “old man” and call yourself His disciple.

    Sin is sin – and the penalty of unrepentant sin is eternal seperation from the Father.

  21. 23 Independent Conservative June 9, 2008 at 11:20 pm

    CiCi, not a single pastor the group Soulforce attempted to meet with has handled this properly. Not a single one, Jackson included.

    They all knew what those so-called brothers and sisters were about in their false claims of being Christians. The members of Soulforce are well published and vocal in their position, so everyone who wants to know of them knows where they stand.

    Scripture is clear, no meetings. Not isolation from those who don’t claim to know Christ, but those who claim to follow Him and do so while trying to boast as if God approves of their sin. That is a false brother/sister.

    What makes someone homosexual is like asking what makes someone fornicate with a member of the opposite sex before marriage. Believe it or not, the answer is the same, sinful lust of the flesh. No matter the attraction, sex outside of how God ordained is sin. That being one man and one woman in marriage.

    Anyone committed to not living immoral and following Christ is doing well. While in flesh, a Christian’s flesh will have desires to sin, but that is what is to be fought against, not embraced, never seen as OK to indulge Galatians 5.

    Anybody fornicating and acting like God approves is false, no matter if they are doing it with someone of the opposite or same sex.

    The issue is this CiCi, the Bible is clear, God does not approve of sin. With heterosexual sex out of wedlock, do you know of a group going around trying to act like God honestly approves of such behavior? We know the Bible is clear that homosexual behavior is not only sin, but an abomination and not all sin is listed in scripture as an abomination that totally defiles the ground where the act occurs, Leviticus 18. There is not a single abomination listed there that is not forbidden still even under new covenant grace given the prohibitions of Acts 15. The fact that homosexuality is very much an abomination, while a sin like gluttony of food is not is something I’ve covered in detail in this post on my blog.

    Scripture is totally clear, with the immoral as noted in 1 Corinthians 5 that claim to call themselves Christians. There is no discussion, there is no meeting. They are to be fully excommunicated. Them and all who stand with them. The members of Soulforce are not people who are otherwise unknown, they’ve made themselves and their defiance to the truth well known. So no Christian has any reason to speak with any of them, ever.

  22. 24 Independent Conservative June 10, 2008 at 10:45 am

    When Soulforce did their college tour back in 2006, some did handle them appropriately then. For all I may have disagreed with him on, Jerry Falwell upheld the proper stance regarding Soulforce. If all had done the same, they’d know their promotion of abominable deeds will not be tolerated.
    Gay Rights Activists Arrested at Liberty University

  23. 25 escapeetoo June 10, 2008 at 10:52 am

    CiCi,

    I have to agree with IM and IC here. However, let us get a few things straight.

    Sin is sin and God hates sin. It is only through redemptive power of Jesus Christ that we can be victorious over sin. Nevertheless, we must walk in “the light” and not in the darkness, we know as sinful lifestyles. Paul gives us an excellent standard for what is immoral sinful behavior in Gal 5:19

    For me to subscribe to your tactic of “open dialogues” with homosexual activist groups I would have to allow open dialogue with other groups that advocate a sinful lifestyles and behaviors. There are many groups to choose from, i.e. satanic worshipers, swingers groups, racists, Marxists, you name it! Do we allow theses groups to come to the table and dialogue unrepentant? I think not. Eddie’s decision for open dialogue is a crack in the dam of faith that we are required to uphold. Please do not support such dialogue unless these folks are coming to be saved and redeemed through the power of Jesus Christ!

  24. 26 speaking truth June 10, 2008 at 11:08 am

    Good catch IC. I had heard about that story in passing, but didn’t realize that it was that Soulforce that we see in action today.

    Check out Falwell’s “line in the sand” from the article:

    Falwell, the university’s chancellor, had warned the group that it would not be permitted on campus, saying he would not allow his school to be used for a media event aimed at raising money for gay rights.

    “Neither will we permit them to espouse opinions or otherwise suggest beliefs or lifestyles that are in opposition to the morals and values that this institution promotes,” he said in a statement issued earlier.

    I agree – Falwell had many problems with his zeal to align himself with political leaders of the day, but he had the, um…“intestinal fortitude” to stand on God’s Word in the face of this alleged “equality ride”.

  25. 27 Independent Conservative June 10, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    ST, some of us have been keeping tabs on this mess for a long time ;) . And Pastor Foster was keeping up with them on his old blog back then.

    When they did the “Christian college tour”, most did not handle it properly and let them on campus. Falwell stood firm. Some who let them on opposed them, while other schools embraced them fully. (Falwell might have been the only one to really handle them as scripture commands.)

    With the tour of “mega-churches”, it’s a shame not a single one stood firm against allowing leaven a moment with them.

  26. 28 speaking truth June 10, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    Well IC, thank God you, Pastor Foster, and many others have been watchmen on the wall for a long time. Lord knows I was knee deep in man-worshipping nonsense in 2006 so I would’ve chalked this entire episode up as a “non-event” – as long as it didn’t hinder the prosperity that God was trying to get to me. Thank God through Jesus Christ that He opened my eyes in time to discern these last days to worker harder for Him than I did for Long and Landers.

    The bottom line is that Eddie Long is a “paper tiger” (if even that). He can growl all he wants about “taking authority”, but we haven’t heard any rebuttal or clarification on Soulforce’s account of the meeting. In fact, Eddie’s OWN outside PR firm confirmed Soulforce’s account.

    If it was inaccurate then Eddie would squeal…

  27. 29 Independent Conservative June 10, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    Reprobates that they are, I’ve never found the account given by Soulforce to be inaccurate regarding any of these stunts they pull. As with Harry Jackson, they would have video taped the meeting with Long if allowed and they would have posted that video on the Internet as they did with Jackson’s address to them.

    It is Long who is hiding and trying to make alliances with devils. And Long being a viper himself, there’s no wonder.

  28. 30 CiCi June 10, 2008 at 9:46 pm

    ST, IC, and Escapee,
    My goodness…..I’ve only been away for a a little while and I missed soooooo much. :-)

    Thank you all for your comments and thoughts….I really appreciate the conversation and I truly hear wha you are saying.

    I suppose that I have a heart for this issue because I have been in the church (and actually saved, imagine that) for most of my life and have seen a lot, experienced a lot and known a lot of people seeking to serve the Lord during that time. The literal lying, cheating, stealing, and manipulating that I’ve seen and still continue to see in the name of God is horrific and has had devastating effects in the lives of the people of God. Most of these abuses were carried out by those in leadership who looked like the “model christian” from the outside and had all of the trappings that we have been taught to expect and judge poeple by- married, children, nice car, house, etc….while lacking the basics of good character, integrity, and a true love for God and His people. And I have watched these same “leaders” reject, condemn, and ostracize those who were struggling with feelings of same sex attraction (while loving God and knowing that they are saved), being honest about it and seeking help, counsel, and understanding from their pastors.

    As I said before, I don’t know the motives of this particular group as I haven’t read their website in great detail — so I’m not trying to defend them in particular or whatever their agenda is. However, I still stand by my earlier comments about the need for dialogue and for us to hear those that are truly seeking and trying to understand how and why they feel the things that they do–be it simple lust for the same sex or romantic love– when they know that they love the Lord and are trying to live according to His will. I can only imagine what a difficult fight it must be….

    And, finally, as many have already said sin is sin, and if nothing else, we need to put an end to the hipocrisy that characterizes the way the church deals with homosexuality…

    Thanks everyone….I really like the spirit of this blog…Be Blessed!

  29. 31 speaking truth June 10, 2008 at 11:07 pm

    I get your point CiCi – and thanks for adding to the discussions on this article, and others.

    As I mentioned, I’ve never struggled with same-sex attraction, thus my reference to Pastor Foster @ GCM Watch. I do believe that if we are to truly disciple any sinner, then we should provide the tools available to aid in their spiritual growth (first and foremost the bible) – and to help them overcome any potential stumbling blocks in their walk (whether it’s SSA, drug addiction, anger management, etc.).

    The church can’t just bury it’s head in the sand and adopt a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy as it relates to hoosexuality. We must declare the Word of God, but we must also provide the additional tools to help them overcome that lifestyle.

    But if we do make the resources available and they reject any assistance in getting and staying on that “narrow path”, then it is what it is.

    At the core, we all agree.

  30. 32 Independent Conservative June 11, 2008 at 10:26 am

    CiCi,

    If someone has feelings they realize are sinful and they are seeking help, that is a good thing. That is what James 5:16 is all about, saints seeking help when in need, to overcome sin. They are dealing with the war between flesh and Spirit that is noted in Romans 7:14-25.

    The issue is when someone has feelings that scripture clearly notes are wrong and they attempt to claim those feelings are right. No homosexual feelings are ever “romantic love”, all homosexual tendencies are of the flesh and a sin to indulge. No man who is not married running to have sex with a female has “romantic love” either, that is also lust of the flesh.

    Romantic love that involves relations of an intimate nature is only with one man and one woman in the bonds of holy marriage. I say “holy” marriage, because the guy who marries one woman this year, then divorces her because she gained weight and then he marries someone else, he’s in adultery, not holy marriage, Matthew 19:9 and 1 Corinthians 7.

    The real issue here, is if someone claims to be a Christian, when presented with the truth from scripture addressed to the church, that something they are engaged in is sin. Will they submit to the commandments of God? If they repeatedly openly refuse, or repeatedly claim the commandment is not true, then they don’t love God because they are openly refusing to make any effort to keep His commandments (John 14:15) and the following rules apply.

    1 Corinthians 5:9-13 (New American Standard Bible)

    9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;

    10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.

    11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler–not even to eat with such a one.

    12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?

    13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

    Hope that helps. Because Soulforce is a group that openly refuses and claims their sin is blessed by God. So they are NOT our brothers and sisters in Christ, they follow a false christ of their flesh.

  31. 33 Keith Tolbert June 11, 2008 at 11:14 am

    Speaking Truth,

    I’ve been playing observer on this post; but something came to mind with CiCi’s last entry.

    Have you noticed that when homosexuality is the topic how some of its practitioners and empathizers always resort to the “how is homosexuality any differeent than any other sin” defense? They put out the need to talk with and understand them. Have you ever heard any one apply these principles to say a murderer or a rapist? We need to talk with and understand the murderer? I mean if homosexuality is no different why aren’t they as willing to display this tolerance for all sins. Certainly there are murderers and rapists who “are truly seeking and trying to understand how and why they feel the things that they do . . . when they know that they love the Lord and are trying to live according to His will. I can only imagine what a difficult fight it must be…”.

    Also this misnotion that “God hates the sin; but God loves the sinner” is pure human nonsense. You cannot seperate man from his nature. That statement is like saying “I love dogs but I hate dogness”.

    The nature of unregenerate man is sin, pure (or impure) and simple. The Bible is clear that God hates sin and that His wrath PRESENTLY rests on sinners. “For the wrath of God IS revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth”(Romans 1:18). God is not simply planning some future retribution against His disobedient creatures – He is taking action against them NOW. Sin has PRESENT consequences. Until a sinner repents and is saved, he is a vile and abhorrent thing in the sight of God. That’s what makes grace so amazing!!!

  32. 34 speaking truth June 11, 2008 at 11:45 am

    Excellent points IC and Keith. The reason that I wrote the post on seeking forgiveness for sin is because folks need to understand that we can’t twist a wrong (any wrong) and make it appear to be right.

    At least we can’t do that and still claim the Name of the Lord. As IC said – saints seeking help in overcoming sin is a good thing. The problem is when saints seek help in making their sin acceptable.

    I love dogs but I hate dogness

    Priceless Keith. Yet again, you’ve rightly explained the nature of sin – particularly in unregenerate man…and the blessing of God’s grace. Grace through the shed Blood of Christ is the only thing that makes us even worhty of calling on His Name in the first place, let alone atoning for our wretched sins.

    BTW Keith – I couldn’t help but to think of you when this story broke…have you gotten any, um feedback from potentially interested parties?

  33. 35 Independent Conservative June 11, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    Some sinners appear to do well in this life, folks like Hugh Hefner for example. But that’s only if you view him through the lens of what FLESH considers to be “doing well”. Even in his mansion surrounded by women he’s broke and wrecked and he does not even know it. He could die right now and most would feel he lived a good life. Unless he repents he’s got a hell of judgement coming his way. So far he has not appeared to receive much in the way of consequences in this life and he might not. Some do dirt in this life and don’t pay anything till the next. As scripture says:

    1 Timothy 5:24 (New American Standard Bible)

    24 The sins of some men are quite evident, going before them to judgment; for others, their sins follow after.

    Keith, you are spot on about how there are all these attempts to play like no sin is greater than another. Homosexuality is an abomination, period. When a homosexual is beaten to death in the street by someone who wanted to beat down a homosexual, none of these folks trying to equal level the sin of homosexuality look at the person who committed the murder and claim their sin is equal and they need “understanding”. So even many who want to point a finger of hypocrisy towards some are hypocrites themselves, who would show a person who murders the homosexual no mercy. They certainly would not want to deal with it like a sin such as stealing. They certainly desire a longer sentence if not the death penalty for the murderer, while they’ve fought against state’s rights (Lawrence v. Texas), so homosexuals can’t ever be convicted of a crime.

    The bottom line is, that God will not tolerate any sin in His sight, but there are certain sins that are an abomination and homosexuality is one of them.

  34. 36 gcmwatch June 11, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    Keith thanks for that man. Really. I’d like to add that why is it that when homosexuality is the topic on the table, its always about how we have to love them. And that’s not enough. We must love them on their own, self-dictated terms or else all is rejected as pure, unmitigated hate. How arrogant.

    So instead of Christ being the operative word in the conversation, they become the center of attention. I cant understand why the attention cant be on why the homosexual “christian” doesnt love Jesus enough to repent of their sin and obey him. After all he said that.

    They whole narcissistic approach to dealing with homosexuality further complicates the real issue: God has a standard that doesnt change for anyone. The only way to relationship with God is true repentance from one’s sins.

    After that is acknowledged, then we can talk about love in its proper context.

  35. 37 rascoe1 June 11, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    Hi CiCi, can I just add:

    Ex.20:14 “You shall not commit adultery”. We know that adultery is having sexual relationship outside of marriage. The escape of adultery is marriage. Gen.2:24; Eph.5:31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh”. There is no where in the bible that the union of marriage can be misunderstood to mean anything but the joining of a man and a woman. Having sex outside of a marriage is immoral and a sin against the body, which is the temple of the Lord. From these people, 1Cor5 tells us to stay away from. Now CiCi, all of these scriptures are clear and easily understand. Please tell me why it is so difficult to believe these scriptures, while other scriptures in the bible are believed? Soulforce say they are christians, so why are they blatantly ignoring such an important part of the same bible that they use, and continue to sin against the temples of the Lord? They must be using another bible. If they are embracing their sin and say they are christians, they are liars and there is no truth in them. I am not talking about christians struggling with sin and are contrite, these people embraces their homosexuality and demands that God accepts them as they are, because “they were born like this”. God made everything perfect, you know, anything outside of His plan is not of him, and is of the enemy, be it sexual confusion or anything else.

  36. 38 Keith Tolbert June 11, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    Speaking Truth,

    No, no feedback yet. My relatives and friends at CNB have been quite mum; if they even know about it.

  37. 39 Keith Tolbert June 11, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    BTW,

    When I point these kind of things out to them, of course, then I’m a “heresy-hunter”, “touching God’s anoited”, a “hater”, or just ol’ fashioned “jealous”.

    So since I’ve told them all so many times about so many evidences of Long’s apostasy I have begun to take more of the Ezekiel 33:7-9 route with those I have already warned more than once. Their blood is off my hands.

  38. 40 rascoe1 June 11, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    Keith Tolbert, just keep praying for them, you have said enough, you cannot change them, only God can. Did you see “Another Testimony from Lakeland” on Independent Conservatives’ Blog? I would bless you and give you some hope.

  39. 41 speaking truth June 11, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    Hi rascoe1, and welcome (officially) to the blog!

    Not to defend CiCi, but an earlier comment of his (or hers…sorry CiCi) seems to be the root of their viewpoint:

    However, I still stand by my earlier comments about the need for dialogue and for us to hear those that are truly seeking and trying to understand how and why they feel the things that they do–be it simple lust for the same sex or romantic love– when they know that they love the Lord and are trying to live according to His will. I can only imagine what a difficult fight it must be….

    And, finally, as many have already said sin is sin, and if nothing else, we need to put an end to the hipocrisy that characterizes the way the church deals with homosexuality…

    We may differ with CiCi in our views on dialogue (if that) – but we all agree that homosexuality is a sin that (if left unchecked) could cause eternal seperation from the Father. Like IC said, if someone is seeking help then we should help them. If someone is seeking acceptance without repentance, then it is what it is.

  40. 42 rascoe1 June 11, 2008 at 8:41 pm

    Thanks for your welcome Speaking Truth

  41. 43 rascoe1 June 11, 2008 at 8:58 pm

    By the way Speaking Truth, I have been following your blog for months and have commented under the name Chris. Chris is short for my name and Rascoe was my fathers name. I looked so much like my father, that some people called me Rascoe as a child, even though I was a girl. I figure it best to stick with one handle.

  42. 44 speaking truth June 11, 2008 at 9:06 pm

    Aha!

    Well rascoe1/Chris, I retract my “welcome” :-)

    I thought your email address looked familiar, but I just brushed it off. Yeah, stick to one “handle” – the less confused I am, the better ;-)

  43. 45 CiCi June 11, 2008 at 10:55 pm

    Again….the conversation has been quite lively while I was away. I’ve enjoyed catching up and reading everyone’s thoughts and comments.

    One of the reasons that I’ve enjoyed this blog is that the moderator, ST, has always shown a willingness to discuss issues and differing points of view on those issues in an atmosphere of respect while recognizing the realities of the human condition yet remaining true to the Word of God as the ultimate authority.

    I think that we all agree, as ST said, on the basic premise that the practice of homosexuality is a sin. For some, it can be an act of sin that is repented of while others choose to live in it as a lifestyle and justify it and say that it is right. The same can be said of those whose sexual orientation is heterosexual. Many live their lives practicing immorality — sex outside of marriage, serial adultery, etc. — while some commit sinful acts and repent immediately and try to do better. We all know that it’s all sin and wrong and what scripture has to say about it.

    So please don’t think I am ignorant of scripture. However, sometimes I think it’s easy for us to flippantly or simply quote scriptures about an issue and give it no more thought. While that may work for some, I find it doesn’t always work for me in my walk and attempts to make my salvation real and authentic in my every day life. I endeavor to be able to share salvation and the love of God with those around me in a real and personal way that encompasses all of life and its complications.

    So….when I sometimes bring up different aspects and the “non-traditional” views of certain issues, please know that I am not seeking to be argumentative and therefore have no “positions” to defend. I’m simply seeking to expand the discussion and share some of the thoughts that I have about the subject in the context of the totality of scripture (as I understand it).

    I truly seek to love the Lord with all my heart and my neighbor as myself and therefore see no need for hostilty or argument even if we disagree on various aspects of various issues.

    ST, again, thanks for the blog and the opportunity to share among friends.

    Be blessed…

    CiCi
    PS — definitely a ‘she’ :-)

  44. 46 Keith Tolbert June 11, 2008 at 11:54 pm

    CiCi,

    “I think that we all agree, as ST said, on the basic premise that the practice of homosexuality is a sin. For some, it can be an act of sin that is repented of while others choose to live in it as a lifestyle and justify it and say that it is right”.

    Would you agree that this latter group, the others who “choose to live in it as a lifestyle and justify it and say that it is right”, are not Christians in the biblical sense of the word?

    Since you are not ignorant of the word then you must agree with the Apostle John when he says . . .

    “No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother”(I John 3:6-10).

    By this standard that latter group you mentioned cannot be considered our brothers/sisters in Christ. If they claim to be and demand to be without repenting of their sin, then they should be treated as I Corinthians 5 prescribes. Or is the Bible wrong?

    While it might sound flowery, considerate and loving when you say,
    ” I think it’s easy for us to flippantly or simply quote scriptures about an issue and give it no more thought. While that may work for some, I find it doesn’t always work for me in my walk and attempts to make my salvation real and authentic in my every day life. I endeavor to be able to share salvation and the love of God with those around me in a real and personal way that encompasses all of life and its complications”, the fact is it is UNBIBLICAL. You, I nor any disciple of Jesus Christ has the authority to be more loving and coonsiderate than God Himself is.

    I hope you would agree that Scripture is the FINAL rule for our faith AND practice. Not our sentimentalities. We can give it all the thought we want, but the final say remains with God’s word and when we choose to take another course we become complicit in the sin we try to “understand”.

  45. 47 Independent Conservative June 12, 2008 at 10:52 am

    Adding to what Keith has well stated, when we look at 1 Corinthians 5, we see an act of sexual immorality that was ranked as WORSE than simple fornication between two unrelated people of the opposite sex.

    1 Corinthians 5:1 (New American Standard Bible)

    1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father’s wife.

    This is not some “flippant” quote of scripture and not an effort to belittle anyone. It is clear God has Paul citing a form of immoral behavior that is ranked as rather grotesque, even when considering sinful behaviors known among the Gentiles, the unclean. It is not just “immorality” it is “immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles”. It is given it’s own distinct status.

    So it is not at all against scripture to cite homosexuality as WORSE than many other forms of immoral behavior, although we are to reject all forms of immorality and excommunicate (not conversate) anyone who acts like their immoral actions are legitimate while they claim to be a Christian.

    We are NOT showing the love of God by going to continually meet with any immoral person who claims to be Christian and refuses to repent. We show the love of God in rejecting them, because HE rejects them unless they repent.

    Homosexuality goes AGAINST NATURE.
    Romans 1:26-27 (New American Standard Bible)

    26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,

    27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

    It is a degrading passion, it’s not simply fornication with someone of the opposite sex who is not a relative, it is UNNATURAL. These things occur because of man’s turning from God.

    Not only should Soulforce Soulfarce have not received any conversation, nobody like them should receive any either.

    Nobody of the group that:

    …while others choose to live in it as a lifestyle and justify it and say that it is right.

    Is to receive any conversation from saints once their position is known. For all, sin is to be repented of. For those who refuse and claim the Lord’s name, they claim falsely, they are apostate and we have no association with them.

  46. 48 CiCi June 12, 2008 at 9:49 pm

    Keith,

    I’m not quite sure whil you felt the need to pose the questions to me that you did, because everything that I previously posted indicated that I indeed agree that the Word of God is the final authority. I never said anything different. And by giving the issue thought I in no way make the Word of God of no effect so I’m not sure what your point is — perhaps you were just seeking to make a statement. And one can still hold biblical positions about sin and the wrongness of it and be kind and loving. Understanding is not acceptance for the mature. And by the way, I resent the condescending reference to my words.

    And, IC, I never said anything about going to “continually meet with any immoral person who claims to be a Christian and refuses to repent”.

    And this will be my final word on this subject, since as I stated I do not seek or need to argue, debae, or be validated by those who participate on this blog. I believe I have made my thoughts and concerns clear to all who wish to listen, consider, and perhaps understand. I will leave the great debates those of you who are so inclined.

    CiCi

  47. 49 Independent Conservative June 12, 2008 at 11:25 pm

    Understanding is not acceptance for the mature.

    So if we understand it’s sin, is there any need for any dialog with a group that promotes sin while calling themselves Christians? No. If we’re mature, we realize God says stay away from them, period. For understanding we study God’s word and ask Him for wisdom, not promoters of evil ways. We offer them the gospel and that is all. Something they’ve already rejected, so no more dialog is needed. We don’t use them as study projects for research in what makes an evil person evil. We don’t talk to them to try and “understand why” they are evil. Evil is the nature of man, we don’t have to study it to know the root is man’s fall and the only hope is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    You asked for dialog CiCi, that does not require affirmation of your every position. I think everyone who spoke with you has been exceedingly kind, considering your mild assertions for dialog with apostates is a deadly option. Also considering your proposal that homosexuality be looked at as no worse than sins that are not noted as abomination, when homosexuality is a noted abomination before God. You affirm scripture is the final authority, but some of your statements ran counter to scripture. There is supposed to be admonishment when someone is promoting error and I think that was done in a decent fashion. You asked probing questions, Keith should be granted the same liberty and his questions should be answered.

  48. 50 Keith Tolbert June 12, 2008 at 11:42 pm

    CiCi,

    No condescension was intended and my apologies if I came off that way. With so many within the Church attempting to coddle those who would degrade our faith I hope you’ll forgive my sensitivity.

    Keith

  49. 51 CiCi June 13, 2008 at 6:38 pm

    Keith,

    Thanks so much for the apology. I completely understand your sensitivity and passion for the things of God.

    I think that I answered all of the questions that you posed in your previous post in my previous posts (is that enough p’s for you in one sentence?). However, if I wasn’t clear please feel free to ask again and I’ll be happy to answer.

    All the best,

    CiCi

  50. 52 caught thinking June 14, 2008 at 11:39 pm

    Wow! Wow! Wow! CiCi I commend you for thinking and trying to understand. Thinking is not as easy as it sounds and seeking understanding is wise.

    I thank God that while we were yet sinners Christ died for our sins.

    Thank God for loving the sinner so much that He gave His only begotten Son to die that whosoever will should not perish but have everlasting life.

    Thank God that He sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through Hi might be saved.

    Thank God that He seeks the one lost sheep tirelessly and loves that lost one the same.

    Thank God… Thank God… Thank God…

  51. 53 CiCi June 19, 2008 at 8:34 pm

    Caught Thinking,

    I couldn’t have said it better myself. Thank you for your kind words and taking the time to let me know that I was making “sense” to someone. I just feel that if Jesus was moved with compassion at the sufferring of mankind, I should be as well. Because, truly, there but for the grace of God……

    I was a wretch undone and He saved me……thank God, He saved me.

    CiCi

  52. 54 speaking truth June 19, 2008 at 9:25 pm

    Caught Thinking & CiCi,

    I don’t really want to go back and forth, but I must add my 2 cents. I don’t want to speak for anyone else who has commented on this topic so I’ll reaffirm what I’ve said – I am a wretched man, deserving of eternal damnation apart from the Blood of Christ that redeemed me from my rightful death and eternal seperation from the Father.

    I thank God through Jesus Christ that after hearing the message of salvation time after time, that one day I decided to stop ignoring Him and admitted that I was a filthy rag. I acknolwedge everything that I did that was not of him, repented for it, and acknowledged my belief that He is the Son of God – and that I would serve Him until I met Him face to face…and beyond.

    I even repented before Him when He (through His Word) shined the light of truth on my allegiance to my pulpit pimps, again turning away from them to passionately pursue Him all the more. God did love the world so much that He sent His Son to redeem it back to Him. He makes salvation and freedom from sin available to ANYONE who believes in Him, and turns from their “wicked ways”.

    I understand the desire to be open-minded to talk folks away from their sin and into right relationship with Him – I do it often (and not in the comment sections of this blog). I also understand the fact that even when you’ve lovingly walked someone from Genesis to Revelation and they STILL want to accept Him on their terms, that they have rejected the message of salvation and reconciliation, and we can do no more than to pray that the Lord’s Will be done.

    Soulforce (in particular) and most of the other ultra-liberal lobby groups of various stripes have been given the message of salvation through Jesus Christ and the remission of sin – and they continually reject it, edit it to include the acceptance of their sin (whatever it may be), and re-package it as “inclusive” or “ecumenical”.

    I sincerely respect both of you – and value your contribution to this (and other) topics, and CT you know that I respect what God has called you to do. I simply can’t turn my head when unrepentant sinners dare saints (even borderline saints like Long, Osteen, Jakes, and others) to take them as they are or else. I believe that the bible is true and Paul clearly said it best in Romans 6:2-11:

    2(A)May it never be! How shall we who (B)died to sin still live in it?

    3Or do you not know that all of us who have been (C)baptized into (D)Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

    4Therefore we have been (E)buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was (F)raised from the dead through the (G)glory of the Father, so we too might walk in (H)newness of life.

    5For (I)if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

    6knowing this, that our (J)old self was (K)crucified with Him, in order that our (L)body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

    7for (M)he who has died is freed from sin.

    8Now (N)if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

    9knowing that Christ, having been (O)raised from the dead, is never to die again; (P)death no longer is master over Him.

    10For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

    11Even so consider yourselves to be (Q)dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

  53. 55 gcmwatch June 23, 2008 at 6:16 am

    IST, I enjoyed your comments. Man, too many Christians today are well meaning but sadly have been so influenced by a postmodernist religious mindset they are unaware that they actually cripple the sinner to engage(if at all) in that manner.The gospel is a confrontation of sin and they are polar opposites.

    The bible has no compassion on SIN. It is deadly, poisonous, wicked, calculating, searing, and much more. Its ultimate goal is to kill steal and destroy.

    Is true compassion borne out in just sympathizing with a person in sin? Does that save them? I could have compassion on a person drowning and sit right there and watch them drown. Wow, I could tell myself, that could have been me in that water drowning. Is that real compassion or is it the failure to act to save someone because we are afraid of the water ourselves?

    It becomes even worse, my brother when the truth is perverted and the Word of the Lord blasphemed by those who claim to follow him. Again, where in the SCRIPTURE are we to have compassion for the dangerous actions of wolves, false prophets and soul thieves who masquerade as angels of light?

    Should we have compassion on satan himself since he is the one who is powering these people?

    Postmodernist influence on the church has dumbed down the consequences of sin while trying to be a friend to the same. When it comes to sin, we are not supposed to compare ourselves to one another (false reading) but to a holy and righteous God (true reading). Like Isaiah, we will see our true condition and then cry out to God to help us.

    Im still searching for that in Soulforce. But, so far all I have seen is their demand for a “place at the table”.

    Thanks and may God bless you!

  54. 56 nauseous June 29, 2008 at 8:13 am

    Pray for me, then. Seriously, because I hate homosexual sin above all other sins, and I don’t like the homosexuals either!

  55. 57 speaking truth June 29, 2008 at 9:41 am

    nauseous,

    I only approved your comment because you need prayer. Sin is sin – and God can and does forgive if we seek Him and repent of our sins. There is deliverance available to homosexuals as well as all of us who struggle with ANYTHING (see all of the scriptures referenced above).

    While I may seem harsh in my direct approach, I still pray that the Lord’s will be done and that all seek deliverance in Him. Instead of wasting time “hating”, you should be praying for sinners – and that God would deal with your heart as well.

  56. 58 nauseous June 29, 2008 at 10:48 pm

    Didn’t I ask for prayer? I knew I needed it when I left my reply. You only pray for those who don’t need it? I’m used to harshness from Christians. I simply asked for prayer.

  57. 59 speaking truth June 29, 2008 at 11:06 pm

    You may have missed my point, nauseous – I will pray for you, and I’m sorry if I came across as harsh to you, but I thought that you were being flippant.

    My larger point was that we have to remember that it’s the sin (ALL SIN) that God hates and that we must not let hate consume us or cloud our thinking. Instead, focus that energy on praying for those lost in sin, and evangelizing the hope that can ONLY be found in Christ Jesus.

    Again, my apologies – and you are in my prayers.


  1. 1 So, “Bishop”Eddie Long Doesn’t “Understand” Homosexuality? « True Discernment Trackback on June 22, 2008 at 9:32 am
  2. 2 Bishop Eddie Long and Homosexuality? « Listen to God’s Voice Trackback on June 22, 2008 at 11:22 am
Comments are currently closed.



AddThis Feed Button Add to Technorati Favorites
twitter

Get Daily Email Updates:

Sign up for email updates and get the latest articles in your email inbox!

People Looking For Truth:

  • 914,226 ...and counting

RSS John Piper Sermons

  • An error has occurred; the feed is probably down. Try again later.

Categories

Archived Articles…


Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 90 other followers

%d bloggers like this: